Jon, I think you get some sort of a prize for misspellings and general incoherence. Thank you for not voting.

@ St. Swithin... You beat me to it on awarding the Incoherence Prize to Jon. I second your nomination.

Whaddya mean, St. Swithin....it's great literature....something between Finnegan's Wake and The Sound and the Fury! Give him a Pulitzer.

I'm not sure which is worse-his disrespect for the right to vote, his ignorance, his hatred, or his apathy. I am just happy he isn't voting!

The only reason to be against Voter ID would be to conduct and condone FRAUD

Any woman, professional or othewise should be disgusted with a suit like this. I hardly think most woman are for fraud in the voting system. The Libs and Dems know all their petty scams, threats, intimidations and fraud schemes are out in clear view now. Looks like folks might have to be honest again or in some folks case, for the first time.

There is some fraud in any system. For voting it is extremely minuscule. People who research it know it. The GOP knows it. Again, they want to suppress the vote, therefore that is the reason to oppose voter ID. If you can prove to me that this isn't the reason, then you still don't have a case to cause so much inconvenience to so many people.

Have you really read what you wrote, Jon? I guess with some white men, the right to vote doesn't matter because you've always had it. I stood on Susan B. Anthony's porch, the same porch where she was arrested for voting and I almost fell down on my knees and thanked her for fighting so hard for the vote that she would never live to cast legally. You may want to watch "Iron Jawed Angels". It's about the women who came after Susan B. who lived to win the right to vote in 1918. That was not so long ago. I and others will fight this Jim Crow voter suppression law and it will be overturned. We will vote these people out of office one by one and turn this state back into a sane society. If you don't want to exercise your right to vote, that's your problem, not mine.

...and to Da Beav. As a woman, I am extremely pleased that the League of Women Voters has taken on the issue of voter suppression. We do not have a problem with voter fraud in this state. I can name on one hand the convictions for this. The only reason the law was implemented was to make it harder for certain people to vote and the Republicans know which people they want to suppress. As a professional businesswomen, I am appalled that a white man (I presume) would condone these terrible voter suppression laws.

bump - Have you really read what you wrote, Jon? I guess with some white men, the right to vote doesn't matter because you've always had it. I stood on Susan B. Anthony's porch, the same porch where she was arrested for voting and I almost fell down on my knees and thanked her for fighting so hard for the vote that she would never live to cast legally. You may want to watch "Iron Jawed Angels". It's about the women who came after Susan B. who lived to win the right to vote in 1918. That was not so long ago. I and others will fight this Jim Crow voter suppression law and it will be overturned. We will vote these people out of office one by one and turn this state back into a sane society. If you don't want to exercise your right to vote, that's your problem, not mine.

Zelda:

Instead of fighting this law, why don't you fight to get IDs for any potential voter that doesn't already have one?

Having a voter ID law will help keep elections as honest as possible. Having my vote cancelled out by an illegally cast vote is just as bad as not allowing a person to vote.

Cow Dung: As I said, I can name on one hand the number of people who have ever been convicted in the State of WI for voter fraud. There will be thousands of people who will have a hard time voting because of this law. My mother-in-law is essentially house bound and without a valid driver's license. It will be extemely difficult for her to vote because of this law and she fits right into the demographic of those the Republicans want to suppress. Google Dorothy Cooper and see how a 96 year old African American woman was denied the right to vote in Tennessee. Germany outlawed voter machines as unconstitutional when they found out how easily they are manipulated. Argonne National Laboratory just hacked into a voting machine with a $26 part. We need to go back to paper ballots without any machines.

Yes, as was stated many times before, it is nearly impossible to prove this type of voter fraud--a lack of convictions is not evidence that such fraud isn't being committed.

Not quite sure how going back to paper ballots help your home-bound mother-in-law cast a ballot, but I have no issue with that. My voting location still uses paper ballots.

If all the time and money being spent to fight the voter ID law were being spent getting people IDs, wouldn't we all be better off? ID cards can provide more benefits than giving people the ability to vote. I see no downside in everyone having an ID...

It doesnt suppress law abiding, hard working HONEST folks. Only folks that cant vote (felons), unregistered, undocumented and illegal folks. Honesty is what its SUPPOSE to be about.

Have any of you voter suppression supporters read the damn voter suppression ID law? It's a mess. The part about homebound voters reads: "Voters indefinitely confined in their home or in a qualified facility [Community Based Residential Facility (CBRF), retirement home, residential care apartment complex, or adult family home] that is NOT served by special voting deputies. Elector must have applied for absentee ballots as an indefinitely-confined elector. Application Requirements Voter registrations that are postmarked after the 20th day before the election cannot be accepted. Absentee applications must be received no later than 5:00 p.m. on the Friday prior to the election. Voter must check box or otherwise indicate on the absentee application that they are indefinitely confined." Okay to what the heck are special voting deputies? Who are these people? What if they make the determination that someone is not homebound? Are they told that their ballot is shredded? It used to be easy to send in an absentee ballot and everyone could send one in and there certainly weren't as many restrictions or time frames. You would fill out the ballot, send it in and your vote was counted.

Have any of you voter suppression supporters read the damn voter suppression ID law? It's a mess. The part about homebound voters reads: "Voters indefinitely confined in their home or in a qualified facility [Community Based Residential Facility (CBRF), retirement home, residential care apartment complex, or adult family home] that is NOT served by special voting deputies. Elector must have applied for absentee ballots as an indefinitely-confined elector. Application Requirements Voter registrations that are postmarked after the 20th day before the election cannot be accepted. Absentee applications must be received no later than 5:00 p.m. on the Friday prior to the election. Voter must check box or otherwise indicate on the absentee application that they are indefinitely confined." Okay to what the heck are special voting deputies? Who are these people? What if they make the determination that someone is not homebound? Are they told that their ballot is shredded? It used to be easy to send in an absentee ballot and everyone could send one in and there certainly weren't as many restrictions or time frames. You would fill out the ballot, send it in and your vote was counted.

Rick, do us a favor and pull any reference to voter fraud in Wisconsin from Google and post the link. Google is a database so it will have records from the past. You don't have to post the Waukesha vote fraud for the Supreme court, just a link to any Wisconsin election for the past --- years. Thanks. It will help in the justification of your message.

Wake up LCG. The very reason the id bill was necessary, although not nearly stringent enough, is the lack of prosecution. And vote fraud in Waukesha!?!? If you're referring to the judicial contest this spring, you're dead wrong. It's sort of like getting caught breaking wind in the elevator and pointing at the other person.

Dicks Deli -- Van Hollen spent a couple of years trying to find some. Please enlighten us with your assertion that it's a lack of prosecution.

KTinWi, or Kiri te Kanawa (look it up) or whatever your handle is, the words "Van Hollen" and "trying" do not belong in the same sentence. #2, the fraud is committed in the registration, not at the point of voting; once the vote is cast, there is no way of telling how the vote is cast. Ergo, stop the crime before its commission to eliminate the ability to perpetrate.

That's just the chatter used as an excuse to pass the Voter ID bill. Where's the proof of this rampant fraud? It's difficult enough to get 25 - 40% of the eligible population to vote.

What Van Hollen's results showed was that most of those whopping 20 cases involved felons casting a ballot. Voter ID will do nothing to change that.

An entire state task force found only 3 cases of fraud, period. I think this ill-advised law will stop alot more people than that from voting.

How exactly can one 'prove' voter fraud without voter ID? If ACORN (or some other group with a political bias) registers a bunch of fictitious people at a real address, there is absolutely no way to prove that the person casting a vote using one or more of those names is voting illegally. It is also possible for that group to register a bunch of people legally, then call each of them on the day of the election to find the ones that aren't planning to vote. That group could then have someone vote illegally in place of the voter they registered. There would be no way of proving fraud without having someone show an ID.

I am actually rather familiar with the issues of voter fraud. Individual voter fraud is statistically an extremely minor issue. An individual must take a positive action for each fraudulent vote cast.

Election fraud is potentially much more serious. In election fraud, a small number of individuals can change existing votes, prevent votes from being accurately recorded, even delete votes, to just sufficient percentage to shift the election, without being so much as to raise red flags. Today, exit polls not predicting the winner are no longer seen as prima facie evidence of fraud.

If the goal was to address election fraud, then efforts on reliable voting machines, confirmation of voter trails, etc. would be included. For example, in one election in another state, a failure to zero out the counter prior to the election resulted in one candidate getting a negative vote total. Other states have been caught with serious computer security issues where a remote intruder could alter even individual vote totals.

The old "fill in the arrow" style machines are one of our best protections against this attack. They have a trivial voter intent in a form difficult to modify. The reason the recount in Waukesha was successful was because that record existed. Newer voting machines do not have this clear audit trail, only a computer modifiable record.

Dick, I am awake and aware of the plan to covertly suppress votes by walker and the conservative right. The others in this discussion agree there is not a majority of voter fraud but an attack on the right to vote. In my previous post I mis-spoke for Waukesha. There wasn't voter fraud, it was election fraud. And what is with that elevator analogy? A personal experience?

@Log... so glad you notice that i do tend to find other sources that back up my points. Unlike many that spew party lines without any foundation for their position. However i dont need a web article today... wasnt there a news story about the guy that moved into a hotel and voted in the 2010 election... he was from Illinois if memory serves me correctly.

I am glad we are finally trying to do something to get back to a real honest election and eliminate fraud... the laws didnt go far enough in my opinion. We still have some of the following things happening...

Supposed "get out the vote" works going door to door asking if everyone voted today... and then placing a cell call to "record the answers"... I think it would be a safe bet where those recordings of those voters was cast.

Students voting absentee and then also registering in the district they go to school in... bet that NEVER happens.

Don't foget the wonderful job the get out the vote crowd did in 2000... more people voted in Milwaukee than were registered.... Wonder if Ms Nocholas was the county clerk in Mke that year?!

So with things like these incidents happening... what makes you think it will suddenly stop without changes?

@WFB Friend...If you look at his college GPA it is obvious he didn't visit the library at Marquette.

@WFB... Scooter did go to the library once but all of the picture books had been checked out. He was then going to ask for "Atlas Shrugged" but when he found out it didn't have pictures he didn't read that one either. He lets Senator Johnson and Representative Ryan tell him about it.

Because getting a degree or going to the library makes one more intelligent?? I think there are plenty of highly successful people who did not go to college or dropped out that make that a foolish argument.

Granted, but Walker seems happy to flaunt his anti-intellectualism. In this day and age we should be looking for something a little more in a governor. Wisconsin should be aspiring to someone beyond Rick Perry (Walker's hero).

I like that the "educated" here do not address the issue, they go into their insult Walker tizzy.

Walker comes from the real world which is a needed change. Having a high level degree only means your probability of being brainwashed by a liberal university increases. Since when does going into debt, being told what to think and writing silly papers make you a good politician? Look at all the brain dead OWS drools, please don't run for office.

@Steve...Anti-intellectualism? Of course a college degree or advanced degrees don't guarantee intellectual prowess, but it does indicate that your able to start and finish something. Of course the best example for your argument is Senator Grothman with a JD, but he's so far off the mark thatHe is downright dangerous.

I hate to disappoint you, but I recently moved to Hudson and one of the first things I did was get a library card. I indeed needed to show a photo ID.

Heaven forbid an imposter should make off with a copy of 'Love's Tormenting Itch'. My last library card didn't require a photo ID, but I guess times change.

I think it is you, not Gov. Walker who's never visited a public library, WBFF. I had to have my picture taken to renew my card at Milw Pub Library at 7th &Wis. Ave. just this year. It's not on your card but they can look at it any time they please. Those wascally wibwawians!

Greg is right-Walker's lack of a degree isn't the issue in this article. So I will bite my tongue on that issue.

The true issue is the anti-common man voting law's questionable constitutionality. If the constitution is good enough to follow with the right to concealed carry, why isn't it good enough to follow here? (and yes, I do know that one is fed

Finish something? The man is Governor of this great state, I would say that he has accomplished quite a bit in his life to get to that point. And so much so that idiots like us bitch out it online every day. I do understand what you mean about staring and finishing but this isn't his entry level position.

I was denied a library card for lack of proper ID. At the time I didn't have an ID that indicated that I was a resident of Milwaukee county...

Oh please. None of us want to hear who the Dem's are trying to protect either (uhm....the dead, the illiegal, etc.). To say other wise just indicates foolishness. Both parties have issues and it would be wise for BOTH sides to look at ways to help prevent voter fraud. In other states, I have lived in, one had to present a photo ID AND their Voter ID card at the Polls....people here would faint if they had to do that.

If you have any proof of those charges you make -- on a widespread basis -- then you have a case.

We should not be impressed about what other states require.

@Keith Schmitz -

Why does proof of fraud been to be submitted "on a widespread basis." Isn't every legitimate vote supposed to count. And with how close our recent elections have been, isn't it conceivable that a small number of fraudulent votes could effectively subvert the will of the majority if the process is not more adequately safeguarded against fraud? I think so.

Try again.

Give us the proof Jimmy that this took place. Again, we know the real reason why the GOP is pushing this so let's dispense with the fake concern.

"Let the farcical arguments begin." - Thanks for tossing out the first pitch.

"including the 92 woman who had voter in every election and can't now." - Okay, so if we know about this woman, obviously someone should be able to give her a hand, correct? What's keeping her from voting, precisely? Somehow the story got out, so apparently she has some sort of contact with the outside world.

@Keith Schmitz -

'Jimmy' personally witnessed some of his fellow dorm mates vote twice while working on his undergraduate degree at UW-Whitewater. They would vote in their hometowns and then also vote in Whitewater. So, yeah, it does happen.

And what about the seasonal college students who are actually domiciled in Minnesota that voted in the recent recall elections via absentee ballot despite the fact that by returning to live in their hometowns in Minnesota during school break they broke their Wisconsin residency long enough to be disqualified from legally being able to do so?

There are literally tons of these examples if you only look for them. But, for some reason or another, they are never investigated or prosecuted. Kind of like how the whole votes for bbq event that happened in Milwaukee by lefty Wisconsin Jobs Now! went away just because the DA happened to be a Democrat that had personally contributed to Pasch's campaign, despite the fact that the GAB declared such activities to violate state election laws.

Explain to us how the Milwaukee DA was able to subvert the declaration of the GAB in this matter, and how such activity wasn’t fraud. I’m sure others would love to hear your explanation.

So i f you are so against voter fraud Jimmy, why aren't you turning them in? I don't think there is a statute of limitations. And if you knew about this, you are party to a crime.

@Keith Schmitz -

If you read some of my other posts commenting on other Patch stories, you'd see that I, in addition to others that witnessed such activity, did report it to local law enforcement. The local police were not interested in pursuing the matter. What was I supposed to do, draw the officer’s gun from it’s holster, hold it to his head, and shout ‘you will take this seriously, damn it!’ Sorry, but I really didn’t feel like spending the night in jail.

I completed my civic duty by reporting it to the proper authorities. What more can we do? It’s just like the bbq for votes thing in Milwaukee. It was reported with video taped evidence. The GAB officially said that such activity violated state election law. The GAB charged the Milwaukee County DA with completing the investigation and prosecuting the case as the law enforcement officer with appropriate jurisdiction. The Milwaukee County DA let the case die saying they don’t have the resources to go after these types of non-violent crimes. Funny when you stop to consider that the Milwaukee County DA is a Democrat who financially contributed to the Pasch campaign.

But again, what can we do? The only thing we can do is make sure to vote against these idiots in the next election, right?

That why I stand with Walker!

@Keith Schmitz -

And just having knowledge of a crime occurring doesn't make one a party to it.

Stop making up crap and go spread your propaganda and rhetoric elsewhere. If you really want to contribute intelligently to the discussion try using FACTS and logical analysis please.

LOL you are so funny Jimmy. For those rare times when people get turned in or caught, they are charged. I dunno Jimmy. Maybe those people you heard of were white?

Amazing Keith. No matter which Patch page I find you on, everyone who isn't in lockstep with your lefty views is a "low information" voter. You're sick, man. Seriously sick in the head.

@Jeff Klass...I'm getting jealous of your relationship with Kieth. I thought I was the only special one. Remember, I am the only self proclaimed elitist democratic socialist on the Patch. Don't go flirting too much with Kieth. I know where he lives. He and I are both residents of the People's Republic of Shorewood. :-D

Rubie -- why does that NOT surprise me. I have an astounding # of clients in Shorewood & Whitefolks Bay. Most of them are conservatives. I know there are pockets of "Viva La resistance" in those two communities - with you & poor Keith wearing the black berets, the Che Gueverra t-shirts & holding the Communist Manifesto in hand. I can almost smell the pachulli from old blue collar Stallis

Why not stay on topic Mark instead of whining about imaginary slights and name calling? Besides, I like capitalism, but am not a big fan of predatory capitalism. Do you get the difference Mark?

Vote ID has been put in place to protect predatory capitalism.

Who's Mark?

@Jeff Klass...If you found conservatives in Shorewood, that's a pretty rare find. That's why the Republicans redistricted us out of Alberta Darling's District. WFB is a purple area, split between liberals and conservatives. It doesn't surprise me that your customers are conservatives, they are the only ones that can afford your services. By the way; do you use DI water to rinse with?

Now Rubie - you know there are plenty of wealthy libs out there. I'd have no problem liberating funds from them, too. Why do you ask re: DI water?

@Jeff Klass...I am interested in how you rinse because your website has some pretty dramatic before and after pictures. DI water is the only thing I know of that doesn't leave anything behind.

Rubie - this is the Scott Walker is SATAN thread. Wanna talk pure water? Feel free to email me off this board. Thanks.

Thank you Bob. Jeff.

Bob, you want absolutely no bans on gun ownership. Why should voting, an equally paramount right, be subject to opposite. We have a lot more dead people than fraudulent voters.

What makes this against the law? They don't seem to specify just claim that it is. Ending collective bargaining was also apparently against the law but we saw that fall flat on it's face as well. This is common sense, unless you support voter fraud.

@Steve...Bad logic!

The punishment and sanctions should fit the crime and the prevalence of the crime. Karl Rove bore down hard on federal DAs to come up with instances of voter fraud and his hand picked GOP DAs couldn't.

Again, this is a bald faced power grab and nothing more, and I am glad the League is pushing back. The Obama justice department should be doing the same. We will be doing the same.

Collective bargaining isn't in the constitution the way that the right to vote is. So, the analogy doesn't quite fit

@Keith Schmitz -

Yeah, you're right! Voter fraud never happens. It's not like the former mayor of Chicago, Richard J Daley, ever said 'how many votes does he (Kennedy) need to win,' when asked to report the city's totals to the state electoral college. Never happened, right?

Wake up man!

You guys are hopeless the analogy fits. You take every silly thing to court just to stall real reform. Don't worry you will still be able to vote for your favorite democrat at the time, but only once this time around.

@James R Hoffa...Sorry friend, the passport is required to pass out and in across our sovereign borders. Freedom of travel refers to travel within the states and territories. Try again.

@Lyle -

Actually, many Supreme Court and CCA cases addressing the issue of international travel have resulted in many legal scholars concluding that the Court has effectively broaden the original scope and intent of the right to now fully include international travel, subject only to certain restrictions, just as we have restrictions on travel within and between states and territories. I can cite you some cases if you wish.

@JRH...Yes please!

@Lyle -

Kent v. Dulles 357 U.S. 116 (1958)
Califano v. Aznavorian, 439 U.S. 170 (1978)
Haig v. Agee, 453 U.S. 280 (1981)

There are some CCA cases that take it even further, but I'd have to log onto to West to look them up, and I'm currently out of credits on my subscription plan with them.

of coarse the state supreme court wil say it is legal. when the majority of voter irregulariies in the state have been a clerk getting her former boss a judge on the court elected, and harsdorf absentee.

@James.... I dont agree with the analogy of the passport and proof of who you are to vote. However I think you are correct on the points about the law being constitional and will be ruled that way. The Wisc. law was based on laws in other stats that have already been tested. I am a little suprised that the LWV did take the suit up... guess they are more left leaning that I ever thought.

@Keith... Carl Rove with his hand picked DA's? Where did you get that intel? You assert that none was found... the same arguement about disenfranchised voters can be made. While there isnt much reporting about the fraud that is occurning, there is enough to know it is happening. Other than some essoteic refrence to a 92 year old woman being disenfranchised (a URL would be nice to see) i have not heard anything but retoric...

My bottom line on voting is this...
1. I want to vote knowing that my voice as well as all other legimate votes voice is heard.
2. Our government needs to really treat voter fraud seriously, because it is serious.
3. Every person who has a right to vote should be able to do so with as little inconvience as possible. But to asset that no level of proof of that right allows fraud.
4. Even one stolen election is one too many... the more we move toward ignorning fraud the more likely it is to happen.

But going from England to France is not....

For someone who said "We should not be impressed about what other states require"....why do we care about other countries??

@Keith Schmitz –

So, you're effectively telling us that the Court will abandon the precedence that it has already laid down in these types of cases for over a century. I highly doubt it. And what does trans-european travel have to with anything?

Last I checked, both travel and voting were rights of equal importance, as defined by our Constitutions.

So yeah, try again Keith.

In fact, I’m so confident that this suit will be shot down, I’ll bet you $50 right now that it is ultimately defeated (when all appeals are exhausted or otherwise deferred by the losing party). Come on Keith, put your money where your mouth is for once.

James -- Nobody would take that bet. The Wisconsin supreme court ala Prosser is guaranteed to do whatever the Republicans want.

And here we have it. All three branches of government are being ruled by corporate sponsors. That's the true election fraud.

@KTinWI -

How exactly is it "election fraud," when it was the will of the people, by majority vote, that chose to consolidate all governmental power in a single political party? You guys on the left really have to start recognizing that we on the right are in fact a part of 'the people,’ too. And right now, we make up a majority of ‘the people.’ How do you guys say, “this is what democracy looks like!”

Not having an ID doesn't stop anyone from voting 2 or 3 times either.

...but then you have no problem with the state spending millions on the free cards

You don't think that there are benefits beside voting that can be gained by getting everyone a state ID card?

What I find interesting is the idea that libertarians groove on the idea of issuing people ID cards. Isn't the first step towards you fantasy of black helicopter government control? How is this different from registering guns?

Excellent point, Keith! Hypocrisy is rampant.

Really? No medical care without a picture ID? My MasterCard has always been enough. As for the rest, you tried to sound witty but only succeeded in making yourself look reactionary.

I am usually asked to provide my driver's license along with my insurance card at the doctor's office...

@CD & Randy... The picture ID request has to due with the FTC Red Flags Rule and/or HIPAA act . Still lots of confusion with Red Flags Rule(federal law) as to the definition of 'creditor', so most hospitals and Dr offices ask for your picture ID as they may still be considered a creditor. Medicare/medicaid/ insurance fraud language was added to HIPAA and compliance is achieved with your picture ID. With the Red Flags Rule and the HIPAA changes one would not likely receive(non-emergency) medical care without presenting an ID at your initial visit. If you pay cash, I think you can avoid the ID request entirely.

Which I do -- pay cash. There are very few benefits to being uninsured and self-pay, but I guess that would be one of them.

What was that? Five people?

Again, we know the real reason why the GOP is pushing this, and it's not election integrity.

No self respecting progressive condoned that action.
Just as I shouldn't assume all conservatives condone illegal actions by GOP supporters, you should do the same.
I do compliment you on speaking to a documented case, not a vague insinuation. However, I believe that it shows how any voting law can be broken, and how justice will be served. How long until fake id's become the issue?

Why was it Keith? Was it to end womens suffrage?

In the fight against Meth... That one move did alot for that fight, Shawn.

@Mardy Meacham...I would expect that out of S.C. In 1970 they were still going through the desegregation process. Voter ID is nothing more than an illigel poll tax or literacy test. By the way, I am assuming you attended school in S.C., cheeters is spelled cheaters.

Does it have a picture on it?

Thank the lord we are out of step with the racist voter suppression that has been the practice in South Carolina since the ugly Jim Crow years--- and never forget the corruption of voter’s rights in Florida. In any event, around here voter fraud cases are few and far between and, according to one commentator on this list, the act of a student on a drunken prank rather than a widespread organized practice.

No, South Carolina is far behind. The Wisconsin GOP felt that we needed a dose of Jim Crow here.

How about a free photo ID card for those of us who are already registered legally in our precincts? We could have them issued next time we vote or at the time we register. It would cut traffic at the DMV.

A couple years back I was at a transplanted clients home. She had moved from Ohio, as I recall. It was very close to elections. She mentioned to me that she needed to get a new ID so she could go register to vote. I told her that if the electric bill was in her name, that she could register & vote right at the polls, same day. She was SHOCKED at how easy it was, and we had quite a discussion about possible & likely fraud. Wisconsin was not "Forward" in this matter. As with 2nd Amendment rights, we used to be "BACKWARD". Now, thankfully, we're starting to get this state righted.

@Mardy Meacham...In 1970 they were still trying to fully integrate the schools.

And Mandy, the intransitive verb “attended” is not spelt “attened”

A survey by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that 11 percent of citizens, 21 million people, do not have a current photo ID.

However accurate or not that is 21 million people are lazy and do not renew their state issued ID. They had to throw the word "current" in there to up the poll numbers.

I don't believe that most poor people do not have an ID. This is one of the most basic things that you must have to prove who you are for a job, beer, travel, the list goes on.

If they feel voting is important they will go renew or get that ID creating too goods, updated ID meaning less chance of tickets/fines and a good voter turnout.

@Steve...You obviously have no understanding how the world works outside of your safe suburban world. There is a whole underground economy and so much exchange is accomplished through social interaction. To qualify for benefits requires a birth certificate and social security card. People do not have bank accounts and operate on a cash only basis. They pay their bills in person or with money orders. Many older individuals do not have birth certificates, especially if they came here during the Great Migration from the Mississippi Delta Region of the South.

@Lyle Ruble... Do you know if a valid id is required to receive or even apply for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or Food Stamps?

@Jay Sykes...Birth Certificate and social security card only.

Yeah that's out there it is far from the norm and is mostly illegal . I am sure the few you talk about really get out and vote and if they do we are done catering to it. Most still drive in your small situation meaning they need an ID, if they are employed they are expected to provide an ID. If they work for only cash certainly they are filing the correct tax returns, chuckle.

If you are stopped by the police how to you prove who you are?
Lyle, I'm 28 have lived in 3 states and in those major cities. Prove you are who you are to vote, pretty simple. Unless the dems just know that voter fraud is rampant on their side.

@Steve...Your suppositions are very off. You cite living in three states and large cities. Show me where in the US you need ID. If you don't have an ID it may be more difficult if stopped by police, but you can legally live without an ID. To assume that these people are doing illegal activities is mostly wrong. Granted many have IDs, but older people may not and they are the ones most likely to vote, and vote Democratic. This is clearly a move by the Republicans to restrict the Democratic vote.

You're grasping for a reason someone does not have and ID trying to fabricate excuses for it. It is near impossible to go about normal business in this country without one, I have to show mine constantly. Older people have IDs it is rare they do not, it is common when getting a prescription filled to show an ID.

If you live in the cash world, as you admit, you certainly are not not filing a tax return which would be illegal and against all liberal principals (chuckle). And if you are filing you either owe are awarded a refund. Both would need an ID to transact correctly.

@Steve...When did it become a requirement to have a photo ID to file taxes? Again, I point out that you don't know much about the areas of poverty and low income. I don't have to reach at all to point out the fallacy of your positions.

I have both filed tax returns and received refunds for many years without showing a photo ID.

How did you cash the check? I would imagine it was at an institution that required a photo ID to set up an account.

Excellent, Keith.

Jeff - there were 3 and it came to my email. Though I havent had a chance to read them yet. I highly doubt it was deleted by Patch staff (which DOES indeed have conservative editors/writers btw). Perhaps you did so you could make the accusation? Who knows. If you are so intent on believing there is this big liberal conspiracy here, then go to Fox. Seriously, I read FAR more GOP leaning stuff on here than liberal. Before I knew what Patch was, at first glance...I thought it was a conservative news site!! The editors I know are extremely professional in their work. In fact, I wouldnt be able to tell you who they would vote for and I work with them! Its just something to whine about. Does ANYthing make you pleasant?? I hope for your sake you can find it. Your obvious pain and anger saddens me.

When you have editors that confuse 'lose' and 'loose', poke fun at people who had their lawn gnomes stolen, and/or don't know how the word 'buses' is spelled, I tend to think that 'extremely professional' doesn't apply to all the editors on Patch...

That said, I will state that I think that Adam is one of the ones that is extremely professional in his work...

From JSonline,
1.)http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2010/dec/23/scott-fitzgerald/wisconsin-state-sen-scott-fitzgerald-says-some-peo/Madison -
this is the only story with facts that i could find on voter fraud in Wisconsin. I could find lots of allegations, allegations are just talk I want facts. its easy to say things or say i heard this from a friend or i read this online. you need to have someone take the time and look into the stories. if you dont find out, all you have is here say. and the world would still be flat. all the stories remind me of another famous wisconsin U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy.

ignore my other post if it is still here i tried to delete it because i got the link wrong (typo)
from JSonline,
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2010/dec/23/scott-fitzgerald/wisconsin-state-sen-scott-fitzgerald-says-some-peo/

this is the only story with facts that i could find on voter fraud in Wisconsin. I could find lots of allegations, allegations are just talk I want facts. its easy to say things or say i heard this from a friend or i read this online. you need to have someone take the time and look into the stories. if you dont find out, all you have is here say. and the world would still be flat. all the stories remind me of another famous wisconsin U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy.

Yeah, rights do have a liberal bias.

@Keith -

Funny you mention Joseph McCarthy. I seem to recall the Kennedy's and their McCellan Committee being far bigger communist mongers than McCarthy could have ever hoped to be. I always wondered why McCarthy got such a bad rap, and yet popular history seemed to virtually ignore the same kind of behavior coming from John and Robert. Oh, that's right, history tends to ignore liberal hypocrisy! Silly me, I should have known that ;-)

They are representing the dead, double, BBQ eating, out of state democrat voters.

Why done't you tells us who you really mean so we can respect you even more.

FantasiaWHT...As far as convictions are concerned, they would be hard to prosecute. However, there should be a list of complaints and investigations. What I have been able to ascertain is that complaints and investigations are few and far between. Much ado about nothing.

We've had a lot of gun crimes incidences vs voting. And what does the GOP do? Make it harder to vote and easier to get a gun. Tells you something doesn't it.

It's easier to get a gun? wut

Make that easier to carry a gun.

@Lyle -

There are more complaints made than anyone really knows about, because when reported, law enforcement usually turns a blind eye to it. My situation during my undergraduate studies is a prime example - I saw, I reported, the police said that they didn't have the time or resources to worry about it. They didn't even take a written report. If it happened to me, I can only fathom how many others this happens to all the time.

Look at the whole bbq for votes incident that occurred in the recent Pasch v Darling recall. There was video taped evidence and the GAB even issued a statement saying that such activities violated state election laws. And yet, the Democratic Milwaukee Co. DA, who was charged with further investigating and prosecuting the matter, just let the case die. Oh yeah, he was also a financial contributor to the Pasch campaign. Surprise, surprise, eh?

The point is that voter fraud happens far more often than even those events that do get reported. And even then, it isn’t taken seriously by law enforcement, as the bbq for votes incident showed us.

It's about time the legislature and executive have stepped up to correct the situation - especially with how close recent elections have come, some within a few hundred votes. Without it, I fear there could be times when fraud could effectively supplant of the will of the legitimate majority, and that just wouldn’t be right or democratic, would it?

It only makes sense. Oh, thats the problem.

It might make sense if Fitzwalkerstan spent a lot of money to help people figure out this system but they won't (hell, I don't think they know how it works themselves).

It might make sense if Fitzwalkerstan had more DMVs and weekend and night hours so people could get their IDs, but they won't.

It might make sense if Fitzwalkerstan expanded locations where people could get IDs like Post Offices but they won't.

It might make sense if Fitzwalkerstan had expand early voting time so people could get to the polls, but they shrunk it.

They've done none of those things and that says loud and clear what the purpose of this bill is, to suppress voting.

We generally do that at the time of registration. Now, my 87 year old mother has a Wisconsin drivers license with picture that is no longer valid for her to drive because of medical issues, but it is certainly proof of her identity and legal address. Will that allow her to vote?

It can be costly (certified birth certificates, etc.) and time-consuming, but you know this already.

You're taking this internet thing a little too serious

It would be nice, if you would use arguments in a discussion and leave the cheap polemic out of it!

@Hudsoner -

Funny that you criticize Greg for using "cheap polemic," however are silent in regards to Keith Schmitz’s rampant name calling and negative rhetoric. Oh, wait, I get it – you’re like Obama. Your not going to be the speech police for liberals, but those on the right better watch out. I’m sorry, I forgot about the left’s new strategy here. Go ahead and fire away!

@Pamela... you figured it out, you came to the wrong conclusion. There was a large recount in WI recently, the only irregularity came from a political hack in Wausesha County.

MN recently had two state-wide recounts of millions of ballots and voter fraud was not evident.

And the tired argument of "just because it wasn't found, doesn't mean it wasn't there" doesn't fly.

The real purpose of Voter IDs is to keep the "scary brown people" from voting, because they don't vote for TEAPublicans.

Where are you pulling those figures from?

@robert heule. BINGO! We have a winner ladies and gentlemen!

Assuming those percentages are accurate, is it truly going to be any more difficult for all those people to get an ID than it was for the 83% of white people, the 44% of Black people, and the 50% of Hispanics that managed to endure the 'hardships' to get theirs?

@robert heule...You forgot to mention that in order to get an ID, one will need a certified copy of the birth certificate. If the person doesn't have one, then it is a minimum cost of $20.00. For those born out of state it will be even more difficult to get a copy. I don't know if they would accept a baptismal certificate. Many people born in the deep south may or may not be able to obtain a copy of their birth certificate.

I thought I heard they were waving the cost of the birth certificate.

@Bob -- How can Wisconsin waive the cost of a birth certificate for those born in other states? Among those are my mother (Illinois) and my spouse (Iowa). My understanding is that even those who hold current drivers licenses will have to show a birth certificate at renewal time to satisfy the requirements of Real ID.

Further comment -- a birth certificate hardly proves who you are, since most of us have changed a lot since the time those birth certificates were issued. All they prove is legal age and that we are native born American citizens. It seems to me that they're addressing two problems -- identity and legal citizenship -- neither of which has much to do with the other. They're just trying to make it more difficult to vote.

And no, Lyle, how would a baptismal certificate prove a person was not born on foreign soil and brought here to be baptised?

Randy, i was referencing the WI birth certificates. As I said, it was something I thought I heard. Haven't really looked into it, to be honest.

If you look at most of the assistance programs here, most require some sort of ID, in most cases a birth certificate. Unless we assume that those folks Lyle referred to as coming up from MS are taking a pass on assistance programs, if they qualify, I'd be willing to bet they've managed to get something in terms of a birth certificate. I think a much bigger deal is being made of this than need be.

@Lyle Ruble... I think you may have found the chink in the armor:how do people -not- born in WI get a free birth certificate? Sounds like a poll tax to me. Of course if they are receiving social security, medicare, medicaid or food stamps, they presented a birth certificate in order to collect benefits.

Why is it difficult to get a birth certificate if you are born in the deep south?

Last I checked, the first birth certificate is/was free. And to those who really are indigent, there are usually applications that can be filed to get the fee waived for subsequent copies. So how is this like a poll tax exactly? Isn't democracy worth a trip to and a little of your time and effort spent at the DMV? Let's get real here, shall we?

@Jay Sykes...Concerning your question on obtaining birth certificates from areas of the deep south, it has only been, in maybe the last four decades that they have had comprehensive state systems of records. Counties were the keeper of records and if was questionable whether or not information was passed onto the state. Also, a number of live births occurred at home delivered by midwives. In short, record keeping has been inconsistent. This has been problematic for quite some time in the delivery of social services for people applying for aid. You also have to remember that its only been three decades that all children had to have social security cards. In any case, gaining birth records remains a challenge and impacts mostly older citizens from those areas.

@JRH... If all 50 states provide the first birth certificate copy free or provisions are made for the poor and indigent, then no 'poll like' tax exists. I am not aware of the birth certificate copy fee structure in all 50 states;please advise.

When the legislature enacted the voter WI-ID law approximately 26 States had tighter voting restrictions than WI. Why, WI did not just boiler plate the tightest, most restrictive voter ID law enacted by another State, and avoid the Constitutionality questions...I'll never know; it just boggles the mind. It could have been both easy and non-controversial.

Personally, I do not have an issue with putting forth effort and standing in line at the DMV. It's amazing that nearly everyone does not have a valid picture ID, as I get asked to present mine often. And I don't use a criminal moniker(grin).

@Jay Sykes -

What can I say. Robert Kennedy did everything illegal that he could to make sure that I went to prison, but I beat him on countless occasions prior to that. And the little worm never even jumped from the capitol dome like he promised after the first time I beat his trumped up charges! All the Vegas loans were legit! And Test Fleet was legit - anti-trust violation my @ss!

BTW - I prefer Jack Nicholson's portrayal of me over Robert Blake's, although both were admirable performances!

@robert heule -

Who's "we," robert? The majority voted for Prosser, thus he represents the will of the people. Sorry you failed to accomplish your agenda.

"What is the definition of hypocrisy?"
Teapublicans.

What happened to neocons? Was that so 2006 and is old now?

Yeah, and what's your point? Obama walked into a friendly Congress with the worst economy since the Great Depression and instead of enacting legislation to reverse the state of the economy, we get Obamacare from the Democratic majority! Survey after survey of small businesses indicate that Obamacare is the number one reason for their current non-expansion. So, not only did they give us something wholly unrelated to job creation, but it's actually impeding economic growth - go figure, right? And, if you really want to talk hypocrisy, despite the program being so good that everyone has to join it via the individual personal mandate, the Democrats are handing out very select waivers to their friends!!!! This is SUPER AWESOME AND EXTREME HYPOCRISY!!!

I'm pretty sure that the good people over at Roget’s Thesaurus have updated their current version indicating that the term HYPOCRISY has become synonymous with PELOSI.

Hypocrisy runs in every political party, but lately, it seems to run far deeper in the Democratic Party, doesn't it?

@JRH...For someone who claims to be a "true independent" and obviously has more than a casual background in law; your are looking more and more like a right wing partisan.

In regards to Obamacare the issue of when and how the issues were addressed, as stated by you, seems to be a bit ingenuous. A major campaign point of Obama was to provide affordable healthcare to all citizens. He didn't walk into a supportive congress. The senate was a slim 60 vote majority and Franken hadn't taken his seat and Kennedy died. One of the key components of healthcare accessibility. was to attempt to reduce the burden on small and medium business. By the time the final bill was passed and signed, it was watered down and compromised to such an extent that some of its provisions were rendered meaningless, However, using The Healthcare Affordability Act as an excuse to sit on the sidelines and not creating jobs is only a convenient excuse for failed jobs programs. What's at the heart of the matter is: less personal income = less consumer demand = fewer jobs.

@Lyle -

Hoffa is a true independent, that I can assure you of. Hoffa's voting record speaks for itself. Between the two dominant parties though, Hoffa sees more merit in the platform currently being advanced by the GOP over that of the Democrats.

A majority, no matter how slim, is a majority none-the-less. Currently the GOP only has a single member majority in the state senate, and yet you still call that a cooperative legislative body that rubber stamps Walker's wishes.

And if what the economy truly needed was more government stimulus, as you suggest, Obama could have saved Obamacare for closer to the middle or end of his term and instead put all his early eggs into making stimulus one big enough to re-fire our economic engine and actually make sure that it was administered correctly. Remember, he also campaigned on the promise of working tirelessly and without rest until the unemployment level started receding to acceptable levels. Last I checked, unemployment rose and now remains at 9.1%, and Obama has taken numerous vacations this year alone.

But, if you really see more hypocrisy coming from the GOP than the Democrats, I guess that's your perspective and you’re entitled to it, even though it isn't necessarily reality.

@JRH...I see hypocrisy coming from both the Democrats and Republicans and it makes it very difficult to separate facts from spin. One is foolish if they don't look behind the claims to make a reasonable analysis and conclusion as to the "truth". No doubt one's own bias will impact the conclusion. A thoughtful person will be self aware enough to properly deal with this in doing the calculus. To me there is very little that separates the hypocrites of the right or the left. I make the automatic assumption that they are all part of the plutocracy and actions of either side are nothing more than to reinforce the position, power and wealth of the oligarchs and their plutocratic masters.

Because it's REALLY about voter suppression. It's the only way Rethugs can win.

Hopefully they fail and and the will of ALL the people will prevail...

Barryy- They didn't have much issue winning without this in 2010, 2011 and 2012 looks like another banner year.

John- How many went unreported and were not found?

Banner year? A couple of points. First, after people foolishly voted in the GOP we can easily hit on the do nothing Congress. Their obstructionism is now blatantly obvious.

Second, with the insane clown posse running for the GOP nomination, the candidate won't be the top of the ticket it will be the slop of the ticket. If you think the Democrats have an enthusiasm gap over Obama wait time it all boils down to Willard. The GOP will go limper faster that the movie audience seeing the bath tub scene in The Shining.

@John Feia -

Are the majority that voted for Walker in 2010 not included in your definition of "the will of ALL the people?" For every confirmed case, how many cases go unreported, uninvestigated, and therefor unconfirmed? About 12 years ago, I reported voter fraud that I had personally witnessed to local authorities in Whitewater - college students double voting under both their home and campus addresses. The police told me that they were uninterested in pursuing the matter. So I can personally vouch for the FACT, that it does indeed happen more often than reflected by the confirmed cases.

And with how close our recent elections have been, triggering a statewide recount, it makes it all that much more important to safeguard the process so that even a miniscule amount of fraudulent votes aren't able to subvert the will of the majority. After all, isn't democracy worth a trip and a little of your time to your local DMV? Come on now, is that really asking too much?

@Keith Schmitz -

Glad to see that the propaganda and rhetoric machine was once again out in full force today. Are you backing Willard Scott to be our next President?

Yes Keith. Finally a branch of government in place to slow the Obama Socialist Express. You continue to ignore the elections results nation wide in the past years, living in denial has it's place on the internet for humor.

@JRH...You know that using anecdotal evidence to back up an argument is bad logic. The real issue is that if voter fraud was so wide spread, that it would be much easier to identify. J B Van Holland brought suit against the GAB in 2008 because of problems with the data base of voter rolls. He was convinced that a accurate data base would be able to point out fraudulent voting. The data base doesn't support such occurrences and his claims were unfounded. It has been a goal of the Republican Party to make voting much more restrictive and they finally got it done. It will not surprise me that the courts will strike down the current law throwing the process back to square one.

Before we support such legislation, it's incumbent on the proponents to provide overwhelming evidence that voter fraud is a significant problem and wide spread. If it can't be done, then the photo ID is not needed. Clean and simple. By the way, I think it will windup in the federal courts since the State Supreme Court is so dominated by the right.

@Lyle -

To base the premise of your argument on the notion that the only time government intervention is necessary is when a clear and identifiable problem exists is not only illogical in and of itself, but highly contradictory of many liberal ideologies and principles.

That would be like saying that the only time the FDA needs to step in and enact regulations to assure that food born contaminates don't make into our food supply is only after enough people have died from such contaminants to qualify it as a clear and identifiable problem.

Personally, I prefer to see pro-active regulation regarding such threats and no one dead, if accomplishable.

Never thought that you'd be abdicating a position whereby many would needlessly die just to satisfy your ideological philosophies. I guess you really do live to see it all in lifetime, don't we? :-)

Typically, only the defendant, in this case the State, can invoke removal jurisdiction as the plaintiff is afforded the initial forum decision upon filing their complaint. To be honest, I don't see the State removing this case to federal court. However, I do question why the LoWV didn’t initiate the case in federal court unless they were discouraged by the fact that similar legislation in Indiana was upheld by the Supreme Court. But I thought the argument was that WI’s law is more restrictive, isn’t it? So again, I’m foggy on the LoWV’s forum choice here.

Personally, I think they just want to disrupt the process a little and fire up the Democratic base by getting a Dane County Circuit Court judge to declare it unconstitutional before the appellate and/or WI Supreme Court has a chance to reverse such a ruling.

@JRH...I can't believe you attempted to redirect our dialogue into an absurdity. To equate a known risk to an unknown risk is absurd in and of itself. There is a long history of food contamination, drug contamination, problems with drug efficacy, etc, which warrants regulatory intervention. Equating regulations for voter fraud with human health and safety is disingenuous and is comparing apples and watermelons. Try again, if you must.

I too don't understand why the League didn't file in the federal system. I would be interested to hear a response when they are questioned.

Hey Barry. Feel free to flag comments that you think are inappropriate.

re:Dave's bees. Not only named. Armed. Was this a thickly veiled comment on concealed carry?

BTW - SB6 (voter suppression bill) is 73 pages long. Have you ever read it? If you know someone with a disability who can't make it in to the polling place (my polling place makes it impossible for someone in a wheel chair to make it in). The bill states: "6.82 (1) (a) When any inspectors are informed that an eligible elector is at the entrance to the polling place who as a result of disability is unable to enter the polling place, they shall permit the elector to be assisted in marking a ballot by any individual selected by the elector, except the elector’s employer or an agent of that employer or an officer or agent of a labor organization which represents the elector" It goes on to state, "The assisting individual shall then immediately take the ballot into the polling place and give the ballot to an inspector. The inspector shall distinctly announce that he or she has “a ballot offered by .... (stating person’s name), an elector who, as a result of disability, is unable to enter the polling place without assistance”.The inspector shall then ask, “Does anyone object to the reception of this ballot?” If no objection is made, the inspectors shall record the elector’s name under s. 6.79 and deposit the ballot in the ballot box, and shall make a notation on the poll list: “Ballot received at poll entrance”.

@Zelda -

Wow. You really need to lay off the Michael Moore films for a while. You're about as rich in propaganda and rhetoric as Keith Schmitz is!

There are a multitude of examples one could give, but you asked for just one so here it is:

The recent deficit reduction bill (although it didn’t go far enough) helps to alleviate the debt burden on all classes of future generations and hopeful starts to get the federal debt under control so that we can stop wasting money on interest payments and instead use that money towards advancing other worthwhile programs for the PEOPLE.

I guess you missed that one though, despite there being an enormous amount of news coverage regarding such.

You might want to try again and stop with all the hateful rhetoric and actually try proposing solutions of your own in actually contributing something intelligent to the discussion for a change. Just my opinion.

@Zelda -

I guess that this is just too difficult for you to understand. To answer your question -

Only if the 'union husband' and his 'mother' are in the same union and the 'union husband' directly represents the interests of the 'mother' within that union - ie - like a shop steward.

However, if the 'union husband' is married to his 'mother,' then this family has far more problems than just trying to vote! :-)

@Zelda -

Multi-generation UAW family, why do you ask?

Your 'documentation' isn't coming from the bill. The voter ID law, as approved by the assembly and senate and signed by the governor, is designated ‘2011 Wisconsin Act 23’ and is only 25 pages in length. I have no idea what in the heck you are looking at that is 73 pages long, but it’s not the official act. Perhaps you’re looking at a preliminary proposal that was made in either the assembly or senate? Here’s a link to the official - http://gab.wi.gov/node/1918

Second, the provisions pertaining to ‘Challenging Electors’ or subchapter V of chapter 6 of the statutes, are relatively the same as they were prior to enactment of Act 23. You can look these up for yourself, Wis. Stats. 6.92-6.97, as I’m not covering every single one here, but the basis for objecting to receiving an electors ballots include incompetence, invalid oath, felonious criminal convictions, etc. As I said, exactly the same as before.

So, just as I summarized earlier, you’re crying over absolutely nothing as the objections remain the same as before, with the added levels of invalid ID presented and elector does not appear to be the person represented in the photo on the presented ID.

Do your homework PROPERLY and stop spreading propaganda!!!

@SAM -

First off, no one supports or advocates for "voter suppression."

Second, no one is "afraid" of anything. With how close recent elections have become, we just want to safeguard the process to assure that fraud isn't allowed to supplant the true will of the legitimate majority. It's partisan neutral and protects the process for all involved.

@Zelda –

Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. Hoffa does have a life outside of Patch and needed to do some repair work on his roof today.

First off, the voter ID law, as approved by the assembly and senate and signed by the governor, is designated ‘2011 Wisconsin Act 23’ and is only 25 pages in length. I have no idea what in the heck you are looking at that is 73 pages long, but it’s not the official act. Perhaps you’re looking at a preliminary proposal that was made in either the assembly or senate? Here’s a link to the official - http://gab.wi.gov/node/1918

Second, the provisions pertaining to ‘Challenging Electors’ or subchapter V of chapter 6 of the statutes, are relatively the same as they were prior to enactment of Act 23. You can look these up for yourself, Wis. Stats. 6.92-6.97, as I’m not covering every single one here, but the basis for objecting to receiving an electors ballots include incompetence, invalid oath, felonious criminal convictions, etc. As I said, exactly the same as before.

So, just as I summarized earlier, you’re crying over absolutely nothing as the objections remain the same as before, with the added levels of invalid ID presented and elector does not appear to be the person represented in the photo on the presented ID.

As I said, do your homework PROPERLY and stop spreading propaganda!!!

BTW - No one pays me anything, nor am I a "troll."

But I do see that you are well versed in name calling (very childish) and must be paid by Obama or WI Jobs Now! or some other left wing organization in spreading your ill/mis-informed and wholly untrue propaganda.

Try reading ACT 23 in context with the pre-existing and unchanged election laws contained within Chapter 6 of the statutes. There is no suppression towards disabled people, unless you believe that they were already being suppressed via the pre-existing and unchanged statutory rules, but I do believe that any logical person with half a brain would wholly disagree with you on this one.

@Zelda -

But if you actually read ACT 23, instead of what ever the heck you're looking at, in conjunction with election laws that haven't changed and are already in place, you'd realize that your accusations just aren’t true. So stop spreading hate and propaganda!

Try again Zelda, and this time - do your homework properly please!!!

Ah yes, I just love the smell of a liberal’s conspiracy theory propaganda in the morning :-)

@SAM -

I am also highly independent and tend to vote for third party and/or independent candidates. I don't care where legislation comes from or who advances it - so long as it's good legislation. ACT 23 is designed to eliminate voter fraud from the election process. The US Supreme Court ruled that similar legislation enacted in Indiana is Constitutional, despite using DMV's as the place to get the ID needed, just as the WI law provides. The WI law also allows nearly a 1-year grace period before going into effect, giving those without ID plenty of time to visit a DMV service center to procure their ID.

Would you be more content with the legislation if you could obtain the ID at your county’s courthouse as opposed to the DMV? Honestly, I really don't see what the venue for obtaining the ID has to do with anything substantive. But if it would make you happier to have it be the courthouse as opposed to the DMV, call your state representatives and recommend it!

Personally, I don't care if it's the DMV or the courthouse!

@Zelda -

No one is suppressing the vote of the disabled. You've already been debunked on this one. If you didn't already see, read my above posts left earlier this morning replying to your previous mis/ill-informed false assertions. You're not even looking at the right official document - it's ACT 23, not whatever 73 page document you've been looking at. The language of ACT 23 concerning door-voting for the disabled is largely unchanged vs. the prior statutory laws for such. So unless you think that the disabled were being suppressed for the last couple decades in Wisconsin and have further proof of such assertion upon which to base your opinion, you’re completely WRONG here.

Please, look at the FACTS before you go spreading more propaganda!

@Zelda -

Wow! You just completely discredited yourself once again by asserting the word of a liberal blogger as being FACT without any supporting corroboration or evidence/proof to back up such an assertion. Congratulations, you once again proved that you are skilled in spreading propaganda and rhetoric!

Stop spreading your PROPAGANDA and LIES here. Why don’t you try using REAL facts and intelligent analysis to back up your claims, like the rest of us do, other than maybe Keith Schmitz? Or are you still upset for me debunking your completely erroneous and FALSE claims concerning voting by the disabled?

Perhaps you and Keith should try the Daily Kos – they appear to be much more open and friendly to liberal propaganda over there.

@Zelda -

Yes, it's there, but you have to read it in conjunction with the existing and unchanged statutes in Chapter 6 to see what the standards are to properly object to a ballot received from any elector! I've told you this time and again. What don't you get about that???

Also, the very same provision was a part of the prior statutory scheme in Chapter 6 and actually changed very little via implementation of ACT 23! If you don't believe me, read Chapter 6 of the statutes yourself!

So tell me Zelda, was the state of Wisconsin suppressing the vote of the disabled for the last 30+ because of it's door-side voting provisions, as contained in the statutes prior to ACT 23, and largely unchanged by such? I don't recall seeing a single story whereby the disable have ever reported being suppressed because of such statutory procedures. If you have proof of this happening though over the last 30 years of Wisconsin's election history, please provide it for us! Show your PROOF!

The language of Wis. Stats. 6.82 (1) (a) is largely unchanged by ACT 23 - read and compare for yourself before spreading propaganda and lies!!! It's not a brand new section of voting regulations implemented by ACT 23 like your trying to make it out to be. It's been on the books for the last 30+ years.

Do your homework Zelda!

@Zelda -

GAB cleared Nickolaus of any wrong-doing and confirmed that the vote count was accurate. Didn't you read their report? Or are you up to your old trick of spreading propaganda again? Do you need a link to the official GAB report? If so, look up the story on Patch - they link to the official reports.

Yes, procedures were sloppy, and she ignored recommendations made by officials, but she always fully complied with state election laws. Even the report by the independent investigator confirms this!

Poor Zelda, you appear to be the victim of propaganda and rhetoric overload. Instead of reading liberal blogs for your source of information, you may want to try going to the source for the FACTS. Maybe then, you’ll join the rest of us in reality!

Best luck!

Keep spreading the good word Zelda. The Koch brothers opened those bags and stuffed in more ballots. Then sloppy duct taped them back together.

Not to mention the FACT that Dane County had more improperly sealed ballot bags than any other county in the state - as indicated in the official county-by-county minutes of the recount, and posted on the GAB website.

More propaganda. Why do you seem to have such a problem with FACTS??? Did you even ever read all of the county minutes from the recount??? And what's this, who was the person that recommened using stronger bags in the next election to avoid ballot bag issues in the future? It wasn't the Dane County clerk. Nope, it was that big cheater Kathy Nickolaus!

Come on Zelda, wake up already!!!

I agree that electronic voting machines should not be used and that every ballot cast be done so via a paper ballot.

If you bothered to read my comment, you'd see that I said that Nickolaus's work was "sloppy, and she ignored recommendations made by officials." But that doesn't mean that they were contrary to state election laws. Personally, I think that all jurisdictions should wait to report anything until after the official canvas has been completed. Our need for instant satisfaction instead of allowing for a quality and accurate count is far more damaging to the system than any of Nickolaus's actions have been.

And isn’t your side that’s saying that fraud needs to be proven before the Republicans can point to a legitimate problem that the voter ID law aims to rectify? I believe it is. So where is your positive proof that Nickolaus ever committed any kind of fraud? Oh yeah, that’s right – there isn’t any. So stop being a hypocrite and stop going after Nickolaus every time a Democrat loses an election!

I'm sorry that I mistook you for a Republican. You must be an Ayn Rand admirer then, huh?

It's because the State ID is not something one normally needs. Students have their school IDs, which don't conform to the Voter ID standards. The elderly often suddenly find themselves without a valid picture ID when they no longer have a driver's license. Basically, it's a hassle to get if you have no transportation, have limited time to waste in line at the DMV, or are in poor health like my mother.

And then to face the added hurdle of having to re-locate a birth certificate after many years . . . Some people are going to decide it's not worth the trouble.

@Hudson Resident....Just eliminating the voice of the opposition; right!

Student IDs can indeed conform to voter ID standards...

Valid student IDs from an accredited college in Wisconsin, with the student' signature and a two year expiration date are acceptable.

@Randy1949

"it's a hassle to get if you have no transportation, have limited time to waste in line at the DMV, or are in poor health like my mother."

Just like actually going to vote can be a hassle if you "have no transportation, have limited time to waste in line ..., or are in poor health...." And yet, you don't complain about the voting process in and of itself for some reason. Not to mention that if you're doing same day registration, you have to provide proof of residency requiring you to find documentation, brining it along, and presenting it to poll workers.

So basically, getting the ID is just like voting. So, if these people are willing and wanting to vote, then what's the big hiccup over getting the ID? After all, if they can vote, then clearly they can get the ID as it's basically the same level of involvement and commitment as actually voting.

JRH -- I can walk to my polling place. The nearest DMV is another story. My mother votes absentee and is already registered -- she proved what she had to already and is not planning a move. This is putting extra obstacles in the way of a Constitutional right in order to solve a non-existent problem.

@Randy1949 -

The right to freely traverse our national borders is also a right guaranteed by our constitution, however, I don't see you getting all hysterical over the process/procedure involved in getting a passport, which is far more onerous than getting a voter ID.

With rights come responsibilities requiring a certain level of individual commitment.

Hey -- my mother could show her old drivers license -- the address is the same and she doesn't look much different. Will that be good enough? Probably not, and that's where we get to the voter suppression part of things.

they can't cheat then if the ID busts the liberal game. why do you think they are whinning so bad. Can't have an honest vote.

Even if the math from that site doesn't add up, give me a break!

Why not try stopping with the whining John? Nothing but crybabies, that's all you guys are.