@Bren
If what you say is true. What should their first act as governor then be? Most of them wish to return to a Doyle style administration, how do you do that and deal with budget deficits?

J.B., I can't speak for any candidate. Logically, a roll-back of the corporate tax cuts would allow the money wrested from public employees to actually address budget relief. All ALEC and quasi-morality legislation would need to be revisited and repealed as possible.

Collective bargaining was a requirement for USDT funding, which affected small communities. There is no way this issue can be ignored. Further, the new crony appointments should be reviewed for appropriateness (for example, Papa Fitzgerald was made head of the State Troopers with far fewer qualifications than the other candidates). Any new crony hires (i.e., transfers from public employee to crony hire) should be cancelled and the employee reinstated where possible.

I would also hope the new governor would consult with the U.S. government about transportation funding. Since learning about Gov. Christie's utter misrepresentation of facts to cancel NJ's tunnel project, I have new suspicions about Gov. Walker's reasons for cancelling the Madison rail project. I could continue...

@Bren
Tax and spend. When we run out in Wisconsin (as we have), then we get more money from the feds. Doesn't the fed money come from our tax dollars also?

Basically you are hoping for a mulligan, because you don't like his conservative policy.

Bren, what corporate tax cut were those?

drink more kool aid , if you want to pay more taxes pay your mine while you aer at it.

John, in the years before Grover Norquist's (yes I'm typing it) idiotic "no tax increase" pledge, conservatives employed balance (tax cuts and increases) to keep our economy on course. Republicans still raise taxes in the form of credit roll backs (a la EIC and Homestead) and fee increases. The meme that only Democrats raise taxes is a canard.

Anti, have you forgotten Scott Walker's corporate tax cuts? And that he wrung more financial concessions from public employees to fund them? It's important to remember all of the facts, not only the ones that please us.

J.B., as someone who leaned Libertarian before life experience was gained, I take no issue with genuinely conservative principles. What Scott Walker brings to the table is far from conservative. His promise to create 250,000 jobs was ludicrous. He brings that same level of intellectual heft to his budget, just as he did when CE. Not to mention that he is following the ALEC agenda (castle doctrine, corporate tax cuts, union stripping) to a "T" as well as the titillation legislation of the Tea/GOP/Koch brigade. There's nothing conservative about making it harder and more expensive for women to get redress for wage discrimination (which in some fields is still rampant).

@Gearhead -
Of course you wrote this before the "Ron Johnson" scandal about not being able to relate to his staff or peers, . The head of a business finds he needs to gain trust, credibility, and support, perhaps for the first time in his life. Most business owners is used to getting his way, his way or the highway, etc. Now we have another misfit bringing shame to Wisconsin.

What word? Kenosha? Oh the ones that rushed in contracts before Act 10 can take place are now laying off. What a surprise.

Should Scott Walker wait with his thumb up his rear and be railroaded by some junior d.a. and his lackeys?! Why is it dems always seem to think that taking the crybaby way out is the high and moral way? For once take your crow and eat it! Scott Walker won the Governor`s office by a majority vote, he ran on what he has put into practice. It works and SCOTT WALKER WILL WIN AGAIN!

@Jason
When is it OK to sign a recall petition? When it is a republican in office? Where is your proof of higher morals?

Organic is a style of farming that can be applied any product as long as you adhere to specific farming techniques approved by the FDA. Dairy can be produced organically.

"Do you know who the most prolific signer of recalls of elected officials in state history is - Scott Walker. "
Sounds like hyperbole to me--what party do you support, Jason?

Is it even legally possible to recall US Senators? Is there an online database where one can view the signatures that were collected?

I believe Jason's comment provides a interesting contrast to the righteous indignation about the recall effort Gov. Walker (R-ALEC) has displayed in his numerous television and fundraising appearances.

When is it OK to sign a recall petition? I would answer that it is appropriate to sign a recall petition when the elected official is not performing his/her duties as duly elected representative for all constituents. When the official, once elected, reveals an agenda so far removed from his/her campaign platform that a "bait-n-switch" has occurred.

Jason's comment provides an unsubstantiated claim that Walker signed recall petitions against Feingold and Kohl.

It seems that the 'pending approval' demons are back...

@Bren
Then what about Barrett? He signed the recall against Walker. What about Kathleen Vinehout, she signed the recall petition? I assume there are republicans in both of their districts that are being misrepresented. Do those 2 fail your morality test?

"When is it OK to sign a recall petition...when the elected official is not performing his/her duties as duly elected representative for all constituents."

So I take it Bren that signing recall petitions for the 14 Democrats that fled to Illinois would be "OK"?

Each individual must make their own decision to sign a recall petition. I would not frivolously sign one myself and cited the dire circumstances in which I would--and have--done so.

I believe, based on observation and his record as County Executive, that Scott Walker (R-ALEC) is unqualified for the position of governor. The radical shift from campaign platform to the ALEC agenda underscores his unfitness for this important role, in my opinion. That is why I signed the petition.

@Jason
This is also one of the school districts locked into fiscally harmful union contracts because they intentionally signed the contract before Act 10. Also, this school district has declining enrollment, so letting some teachers go only makes sense.

Funny thing is the union are doing nothing to help protect these jobs(ie concessions). The union efforts and cash to help these teachers are being funneled into the Falk campaign and attacking Walker. Which in turn will do nothing because the state has no extra money to pay them either.

Jason:

The situation at KUSD is a perfect example of why collective bargaining needed to be restricted. Because of the large budget shortfall, the union was asked restructure their current contract to have teachers contribute to their pension and healthcare costs like most other public employees do under Act 10. Rather than help balance the budget and prevent the layoffs, the union refused to make concessions.

Cow, teachers and other public union employees accept employment based on salary/compensation offered. I believe it was/is inappropriate to suggest that these individuals are somehow getting away with not paying their fair share.

I receive a number of benefits in addition to my salary, vacation, etc. Should I be villified for this?

Do liberals like Jason just not do their research or hope to keep typing the lies in hopes that no one does further research?

Kenosha is a perfect example of what would have happened to every school district if it was NOT for Scott Walker (R-ALEC)

Vote for FALK, we can all be like Kenosha!

Bren:

Private sector employees accept employment based on those same conditions. Why should public union employees be immune to the same economic conditions the rest of us have had to face? Why is it fair for taxpayers to pay more to continue to provide their benefits at the same level while we are facing pay cuts and higher benefit costs of our own? It's called shared sacrifice...

Cow, I'm not saying they shouldn't, or we shouldn't, as long as the burden is shared.

However, in the case of the public employees, they had just received furloughs under the Doyle administration (16 days, if memory serves). So it would be unjust to believe that they hadn't also been affected by the recession.

The recession wasn't over--would you rather them continue with the furloughs?

At least with the pension contributions, the workers are paying into their own retirement--they will get that money back. With furloughs, it is just lost pay...

How many furlough days did the teachers have to take? I believe it to be far fewer than 16 in most school districts...

June - September
Week for Thanksgiving
Week for Christmas
Week for Easter

paid.

@J. B Schmidt

<<<Funny thing is the union are doing nothing to help protect these jobs(ie concessions). >>>

Exactly. That school is yet another example of what a counter-factual Scott Walker-free world would look like. The poor teachers who got the contract they wanted refuse to sign a contract that would save the jobs of the lower paid junior brother and sister union members. They suck all the jobs out of the system and have enough gas in their bloated bellies to belch out "lOok wHaT wAlKer dID to tHoSe pOor pEople."

Walker voted to save their jobs. They voted to kill the jobs of their fellow union members, not to mention screwing the kids.

@Mike
Right state funding directly into teacher contracts that provide benefits unmatched in the private sector.

I will ask you the same question I posed to Bren above. What should your candidate (I notice you did't actually defend any of them) do when they get into office? Repeal Act 10? Then what? Restore funding? With what money?

Mike, KUSD teachers and School Board didn't take advantage of Act 10. Nothing stops them from coming to the table right now and offer to meet those sacrifices to save many jobs in KUSD. Dropping the OPTIONAL 4-K program is a nice place to start. Ask your representatives Barca and Steinbrink and Wirch to ask for vouchers to be expanded to Kenosha Schools. As the private schools would expand and the hiring of unemployed teachers could be done by those entities. Also bear in mind Obama's "stimulus" $$ was all spent before Walker took office. So Walker had a huge Decreas in Fed Funds because of not having the artificial $$$ that Doyle had. Walker Wangaard and others made tough choices that Doyle, Obama and your Reps. refused to do.

@J. B. Schmidt -- Need I remind you that better health and retirement benefits were negotiated in return for lower salary, something that actually saved the taxpayers money at the time. Ask or force public workers to take a pay cut in hard times like these, but at least be honest about it. And don't blame them for the mess the economy is in.

@Randy
Walker is not responsible for the economy either. The people supplying the teacher with a job (ie taxpayers) are just as hard hit by the economy. Are you saying the tax payer should sacrifice additionally to pay the salary and benefits of teachers? If the teachers in Kenosha want a job, they should sacrifice and kick in some of their benefits. Either get paid less or don't get paid at all. They will still be making more the private sector teachers, even after paying for benefits.

@J. B. Schmidt -- They agreed to the cuts. They didn't agree to the severe modification of their collective bargaining rights which made the cuts permanent and tends to imply that unions are behind the state's economic woes.

How about looking at bloated administration and the cost of buildings when it comes to the huge school levies?

@Randy
Not unlike in MPS, the Kenosha teachers union refused a contract change that would have saved jobs while increasing their cost of benefits. They had an opportunity to do so without having to ratify the contract under the Act 10 rules.

Please, cut administration. Efficiency at any governmental level should be under scrutiny.

@ Dirk...
What a bunch of Cr*P. The fact is the lowest economic achievers are 3-4 times more likely to vote for Democrats, the inner city welfare class around our country overwhlemingly support Dem/ Libs. They are the least educated, and the least motivated to better their own lives. (regardless of individual IQ). That is just a phony claim that is tossed about by people incapable of understanding basic math and economics. Go back to your easel Dirk I'll look for you at the next "starving Artist" sale. Artist's generally are the most likely to be Liberal..yet the least likely to ever pay much in taxes..since only a handful of them become successful enough to earn a living.

@Urban Pioneer -- I disagree that the least educated low-wage earners are always the least motivated to better their lives. They can also be those who understand that minimum wage-earners can work just as hard as those millionaires, and that some people have an extra hard time obtaining that which will lift you from the ranks of low-wage to high-earner -- a good secondary education and capital for starting those businesses.

And thank you for the egregious slap at artists. Trust me, dude, most of us understand math and economics very well. We have to, to scrape by on what we earn.

Urban pioneer, a Brock University study (abstract here: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187) tested/rated cognitive ability:prejudice using a U.K. test base.

The brain operates on automatic, subconscious and conscious levels. It is as important to learn the steps of identifying and solving complex intellectual problems/challenges as part of overall learning. It is in part experiential. This is why students who have a "well rounded" education (i.e. including music, visual and liberal arts, sports/phy ed) perform better on SATs than students with more limited educational experience. As the link suggests, "low levels of contact with out-groups..." the narrower intellectual confines of these students directly impacts their world view as adults.

I have observed cognitive deficits and the "conservative" mindset, by and large, does not correlate to these. I perceive it personally as a cognitive inflexibility at worst; an inability to adjust ideas according to new information. I have observed outright dismissal of documented facts because the new information contradicted an existing perception. I have also observed complete and naive acceptance of information based solely on its source (tv personality, etc.) irregardless of its veracity. Interesting.

Sidenote: Don't be fooled-"starving artists" can make an excellent living!

@Bren & Dirk
I don't care what you think of my IQ. I have seen those high IQ liberals destroy Europe with their big brain socialism. Now you want to bully those of us simpletons that enjoy a free market and capitalism because it doesn't fit your altruistic utopian ideal.

Please, one of you show me were your higher IQ combined with liberal thought has produced something better then capitalism had.

@J.B. Schmidt....I don't quite understand your anti-intellectualism. You may not be quite as educated as others, but you are from being a nonintellectual. I have read the same studies as Bren plus quite a few more on the issue of differences in brain functioning as it relates to conservatism and liberalism. I.Q., as it has been traditionally measured, shows no significant differences between conservatives and liberals. However, response to different sets of stimuli shows a significant difference in the way the stimuli is ordered, processed and interpreted. In general, conservatives are a glass half empty people and liberals are a glass half full. Conservatives also interpret stimuli at higher risk than do liberals. Finally, liberals are less threatened and they more easily accommodate complexity than do conservatives. That being said, it has an impact on how the world view is formed and perceived. This may be why the vast majority of academics consider themselves as liberals. It may also be why conservatives are attracted to business careers and engineering. I find it important that we have conservative views and liberal views to balance perspective and keep society from going off one end or another.

@Lyle
I wouldn't call it anti-intellectualism. I just don't accepts studies that place the intelligence of one entire group over that of another. For instance, my guess those studies were conducted by liberal academics, possibly some slightly slanted results? I would find skepticism against the same style study done by CATO or Heritage. Since even within each group the experiences, IQ's and opinions differ, it is not helpful to attempt to make such a large classification.

@GearHead -- Really? The heads of AIG, JP Morgan Chase, and Wells Fargo all vote Democratic? Well I'll be dipped!

Have to chuckle at your 'representational' company picks, Randy. Jamie Dimon (@JPM) and Joseph Cassano (@AIG) are both very widely known as big Democrats. I don't know about the Wells Fargo guy.

Interesting. Gear, why shouldn't people with qualifications and skills earn a good living?

Speaking of adding and subtracting, how can Wisconsin be "broke" ("We're broke!" - remember last year's catch phrase?) but yet be ready to spend $5-$6 million on enacting the ALEC voter ID bill? That doesn't add up to me. Or wringing financial concessions from public employees who already had received furloughs under Doyle to pay for new ALEC corporate tax cuts? That doesn't add up to me either. Or presenting ALEC union-stripping as "budget repair?" That also doesn't add up.

Or taking interest in high school sex ed instead of focusing on Jobs, jobs, jobs? Not only doesn't that add up to anything helpful, it's weird.

I think it would be very helpful for our ALEC governor if Democrats (and independents) stuck their heads in the sand. But it's impossible to ignore facts unpleasant as they sometimes are.

I think that Kenosha has recently demonstrated why 'union stripping' was necessary for budget repair...

Which cost public employees more money--the furloughs or the contributions to their pension and health benefits?

Agreed. The capacity to "guide" other areas of the "conservative" spectrum (i.e. "economic conservatives") as a method to achieve goals.

The aggressive language/behavior could be categorized as self-defense mechanisms to deflect/contain above-capacity intellectual stimulation.

No Dirk, the name-calling and death threats regarding the Governor have definately been coming from your side. And yes, it goes against our conscience to continue to throw money down the toilet in the name of social engineering. But at least we have a conscience.

@GearHead...No conscious, just "pocket book morality".

When exactly did this "originally backed Walker" thing occur? Don't you think that their more recent support for Walker's opponent in the governor race would be more influential?

@CowDung...Walker cooked a deal with the badge unions and that's why Milwaukee County badge unions have come out to support him during the recall. Milwaukee Fire and Police hate Barrett for what he's done in Milwaukee to try to balance the budget.

Amen! I am so tired of all of these clueless people denigrating teachers and the assumption that they only work 9 months a year mantra. I know teachers putting in 10 hour days five days a week and working at home besides. I would like them to take a walk in their shoes or keep their mouths shut. Seems like some people make themelves feel bigger by belittling someone else. Teachers have been the cheap target of talk radio people for years. And the sad part is that people believe their rants.

According to the public employee database, it doesn't seem that teachers are paid as poorly as you are claiming...

You are a clown, bro. All you do is recycle the same talking points that have been going around for decades and when you get challenged on them, you disappear then come back later and start a new line of attack completely ignoring where you have been debunked and acting like it never happened. I am not going to play that game with you.

Earlier in this thread you used Kenosha as the example of teacher/budget cuts as a way of showing Walker is hurting education. When it was pointed out to you that the only reason Kenosha had to do this was because they EXTENDED CONTRACTS BEFORE ACT 10 WENT INTO EFFECT you disappear because your premise was obliterated. Before you move on to something else, why don't you acknowledge that the Kenosha School District (and MPS for that matter) would have been able to save these jobs if they used Act 10? C'mon, lets here it. And please don't change the subject again until you wrap this one up.

@Bob McBride -- "The good old days aren't around for anyone anymore. My industry pays about half of what it did when I started in it, the bene's are just about all gone and that's just the way it is." Your pay and your benefits went to support CEO salaries and record corporate profits. And yet you support a tax policy that not only allows it but doesn't even tax those high salaries and profits to the extent that it would make up for the economic damage it causes. There's something illogical about that.

@Randy
So salaries went to build profits. Therefore your solution is to tax that profit as tax. Wouldn't that then cut even deeper into pay and benies? That tax then goes into government coffers, not to help the working; but those that refuse to work and to have the government decide what businesses live and die. Doesn't that make the government just as evil as the profiteer.

"So salaries went to build profits. Therefore your solution is to tax that profit as tax. Wouldn't that then cut even deeper into pay and benies?"

It depends. Don't pay and benefits come out as a business expense, before profits are calculated? Companies should just have a choice -- either pay their workers (who will in turn pay taxes on that money) or pay the tax themselves. Profits are profits -- money that is not paid to workers or reinvested to grow the business.

Taxes aren't necessarily used to support these shiftless folk you say don't want to work. Middle-class workers pay a higher tax to make up for those taxes corporations and rich guys like Mitt Romney DON'T pay.

As for sticking to what I know, I have no idea at all what you do. Your entire industry is in the dumper? Do you work in publishing?

@Randy
So a man who starts a business must do it for purely altruistic reasons? That is to sacrifice for the employee and the product.

Jason - you are still whining. Why are you always whining. I sense a little man not happy with his lot in life. Grow a pair buddy.

►Middle-class workers pay a higher tax to make up for those taxes corporations and rich guys like Mitt Romney DON'T pay.◄

No they don't. Not even close.

@Steve -- Which accounts for our whopping deficit.

No, again. A middle class worker does not pay more in taxes than a guy like Romney. This isn't rocket science.

We have a spending problem and Obama has just spent more and more. You are free to donate to the IRS if you feel you should be taxed more.
...

@Steve -- We pay, in many cases, a greater percentage of our income than people making millions a year.

We have both a spending problem and a revenue problem. We got into the hole because an administration cut taxes/revenue and then went on spending. It's going to take both to fix it.

@Dirk
Your own statement is a contradiction in logic. You said, "the very nature of a businessman is to eliminate jobs by innovations". If this is true, please explain to me how we have a larger workforce then we did in the 1930's? Based on your own logic should the innovation that occurred for the last 100 years have done the opposite?

You never answered my question regarding where your altruistic utopia has succeeded. Please show me a successful business where the business man has sacrificed innovation, profit and efficiency in favor of the expensive labor and loose working standards.

Like it or not Dirk, without businesses there would be no jobs...

Isn't it pretty dangerous for the economy to cast businesses as the 'bad guys'?

Like it or not, CowDung, without a paid workforce with a certain level of disposable income there would be no customers -- not even for cheap junk made in China. We've seen it already with people being unable to afford houses and cars; pretty soon it will be tube socks from Walmart that aren't selling.

@Randy
That is a bogus statement. "Certain level of disposable income", what would that level be. It has fluctuated over time that the free market system adjusts by meeting the needs of the people in order for businesses to state profitable. The evil empire of Walmart is a living breathing example. The free market system fails when you and dirk imply that a 'certain level of disposable income' is necessary and must be matched or compensated for. Once you begin compensating for your predetermined 'level of disposable income' the free market breakdowns at which point your socialist ideals do create the economic ideals you suggest.

All right, J. B., in plain English it means that when incomes head in opposite directions you'll lose your customers. Walmart will eventually find that out when people stop being able to afford even a cheap Chinese TV that lasts only a year.

@JB, Cowdung, Bob -
Ah, the sad, tired tactic of trying to put extreme phrases in a my mouth, then criticizing for those.

I am not anti-business. Business has a critical role.
We have a larger workforce today than the 1930's because we are out of the worst depression in world history, thanks in great part to the New Deal, tremendous population growth, and yes,massive innovation. I am not against innovation, I am just saying that one of the businessman's narrow focuses is to innovate (robots, computerization, internet, etc.) and that is great. And that type of innovation creates more, different jobs. But the point is a businessman does not generally make a good President, Senator, etc. Look at the almost immediate and grave disappointment of Ron Johnson as a Senator, for example.
Government is there to fill the societal and defense needs business cannot do/ avoids/ignores. And a corporation is just that, not a person, which frankly, is spooky that you all are so adamant about that.

I never proposed an altruistic utopia, just a balanced, human world. There is no utopia, even in your dreams of drastically reduced government. and a kind of gun-toting frontier fantasy world.

And Bob, you may be an example of what I often comment on. Ultra-conservatives that entusiastically grasp the easy jingo principles of right wing slogans and chestnuts, and that quickly resort to insult and name calling when frustrated with a point of view beyond their reasoning.

@Randy
Ever think that taxation and the threat of government intervention has created an environment where there is not profitable in paying people and instead letting the government sort it out. Which of course we know that can't.

@Bob McGuire,
Gee, after enduring hundreds of your comments, maybe I have you wrong. Do you disagree with the Supreme Ct. decision that a corporation is a person? Should there be limits on how much money can be spent on "free speech" (political ads)? You are maybe not going to vote for Romney in the general election?
I will admit to calling the extreme Republican cell as the evil dark side. Sorry if that offends you. Do you think it is the holy, light side?

Perhaps it has something to do with not compromising public safety. Considering the type of response we saw from the teachers, it seems to have been a smart move...

I seem to recall that North Shore FD and Brookfield FD employees throttled back their wage demands and offered an employee contribution towards benefits, just following Act 10 implementation. I wonder how voluntary givebacks by 'public safety' employees are working out on a statewide basis.

That's kind of the point--while the teachers were being 'well mannered and orderly' in Madison, their schools were closed because they didn't show up for their jobs...

...and in many cases, teachers failed to inform their school that they would be absent until after students were already there, making things more difficult for the administration to deal with the situation.

Madison has 'very high standards' for what? Have you not been to State Street on Halloween?

I went on a Saturday when teachers were on their own time. It seems like all of these negative talking points are about a minority of the thousands that attended the peaceful rallies. Seems to be a pattern here on the same old "talk radio" talking points.

I don't think you are getting it JH RDH.

The issue wasn't about the teachers being rowdy or disorderly with their protests. The point was that they didn't show up for work because they went to Madison to protest. Can you imagine if police and firefighters failed to report for work and instead went to Madison to protest in the same peaceful manner that those teachers did?

Scott Walker has spent far more time traveling around the U.S. fundraising and preaching the ALEC gospel in Arizona instead of doing his job as "Wisconsin's" governor than any one teacher who took a day off to join the protests. Most teachers I know have personal and vacation days, as well as sick days. Charge the few who did this a personal day and be done with it.

Bren:

How much time has Walker really spent 'gallivanting' around the country as you claim? Please share with us how many trips and how many days Walker has spent on these 'around the US' fundraising junkets.

Yes, teachers have personal days and sick days. It's still bad form to call in to work with such short notice that a substitute could not cover for their absence.

Halloween has nothing to do with teachers--you were the one that talked about Madison's 'high standards' and the alleged lack of rowdiness that seems to exist there.

How 'few' were the teachers that didn't show up for work? There were certainly more than a 'few' schools closed because teachers chose to not come to work in favor of protesting. Some even got fake doctor excuses so they could claim it as a 'sick day'...

Do you at least understand the potential for bad things to happen if the police and firefighters engaged in such behavior?

What?!?

Let me slow down a bit--you seem to be having a hard time grasping the point.

Would you agree that the 'threat of bad behavior' AKA calling in "sick" for work so they can protest, likely exists equally in both teachers and police/firefighter groups? I think that there is no reason to think that one group is more likely to skip out on work than the other.

Which group's failure to report to work would have the most serious consequences? In my opinion, the damage caused by a couple of days of no school can't compare with not showing up to put out fires or stop crimes in progress...

Walker chose to err on the side of public safety.

Not hard to grasp. Walker targeted the group that has the majority of women in it. What a surprise with historically the least support from the GOP. Kind of like the Glen Grothman point of view. You keep talking in circles. There is no good reason to target teachers and some public workers. The bottom line is that there is strength in numbers and if Walker did what was done in Ohio he could not have handled it. Of course in Ohio the people were able to vote back their rights. Bottom line he would not have had to worry about public safety and his own if he didn't unfairly target the teachers and make them a scapegoat for his budget problems. It shouldn't come down to sparing one group because you fear their actions more than the reactions of the other group. I guess he wasn't afraid to get those rulers rapped over his knuckles.from those rowdy teachers. I guess those teachers are just too nurturing.

You are claiming that Walker targeted teachers (and and the non-police/fire public union members) because they are mostly women? You are just grasping at straws now...

Makes perfect sense!

WOW.....

http://tinyurl.com/bt7rrsp

@J H - And I would add your point that most teachers are women, and therefore not on Walker's list of preferred clients, and he seems to havewrongly figured, weaker.
But hell hath no fury like........
The teachers were caught in a perfect storm of Walker's sociopathy.

Scott Walker traditionally seems to have an issue with anyone who disagrees with him (as when he was County Executive), and union reps certainly would fit into that category, given his attempted (and in the case of court security workers, illegal) dealings with county employees.

As union stripping is part of the ALEC agenda (as part of a strategy to de-fund the Democratic Party), Scott Walker may have appreciated the opportunity to "drop the bomb" on public employee unions (at least those who didn't support his election).

@Dirk
Like a good liberal when you can't win over the public with your ideas then revert to fear mongering. Just like the recall, it started out all about collective bargaining until you realized the people of Wisconsin actually wanted it. Then you switched to voter ID, until you realized the people of Wisconsin wanted it. Now you must attack him because he hates women? If you or JH could provide me with stats on the gender breakdown of all state, county and school workers effected by Act 10, I think you will again be proven wrong that it was not an act against women. That leaves with a John Doe investigation that has been working for 2 years in a a DA's office that leaks like a sieve, contains workers who signed to recall the man the office is investigating and has yet to produce any info to incriminate Walker.

Continue with your fear mongering, the public has seen the dark side of the Democratic party.

J.B., I believe you missed Dirk G.'s point. His post is a celebration of our Constitution and our democratic system, which allows us to take action against corrupt and incompetent politicians. I don't see any fearmongering.

Concerning workers who signed a recall petition, it has been demonstrated that they were clear to do so (those who were not, did not). Let's stop promulgating inaccuracies!

@JB - Fear-mongering?? Are you feeling the fear, or seeing something to fear in the current political landscape as an ultra-conservative?

That would be a normal reaction.

Walker booted in a recall, the Wisc. Legislature back in control of Democrats, a Republican robber baron economic agenda from the 1800's and a social agenda from the Dark Ages of church oppression, a veiled agenda of racism, sexism, class warfare, anti-education, and frontier "justice" with guns, a formerly Eastern liberal Republican running as a "extreme conservative" for President trying to relate to rednecks, etc. etc.
Yes, J.B., I would be so fearful, I would stay up blogging all night too. What a royal mess you have to try to sell to the public. .

@Dirk
Royal mess we have to sell? You liberals keep changing the reason for this recall because you can't find public support.

Let me point out fear mongering in your own statement, "a Republican robber baron economic agenda from the 1800's and a social agenda from the Dark Ages of church oppression, a veiled agenda of racism, sexism, class warfare, anti-education, and frontier "justice" with guns"

You have no actually factual basis for that comment. It is a rant attempting to frighten people. I would like you to point the dark age of church oppression in policy form. Changing sex ed to stress Abstinence and let the school districts figure the rest is a far cry from what the Catholic church taught in 1100CE.

@J.B. - Fear-mongering as your snide word of the day? One of the weak tactics used by ultra-conservatives is to try to turn arguments 180 degrees and accuse their opponents of their own sins. That is extremely difficult to pull off for one of the most progressive-fearing and vociferous bloggers out there on the rim of hellfire and brimstone.

I am not going to get in an argument involving religion with someone that proclaims their absolute belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible, in spite of its contradictions, rules for acceptable slavery, an Old Testament vengeful god smiting and lightning bolting tribes of people like the Roman god Mars, etc. You will just seek the refuge of dogma in any such argument.

As for the robber baron reference, what market rules besides the law of the jungle is the ultra-right advocating we keep since those days of Big Jim Fisk and Jay Gould? You may name a few, but that would be non-libertarian.

And you have spent an incredible amount of words denying the racism in the ultra-right position. And the now emergent sexist Republican philosophy that women are better in the home, maybe go back to being low paid teachers, and should have babies without real choices otherwise. And Romney, well, who really relates to him except the Latter Day Saints? And who is advocatging denying government care of all those unwanted babies when abstinence fails and abortion is illegal?
Yes, a Royal, contradictory mess, Sir J.B.

@Dirk
You claim not be doing what you are doing. You brought the church into this discussion, not I. Then you are using baseless rhetoric in an attempt to build fear against conservatives.

Oddly enough you have nothing from the Walker policy to back up your claims. You dredge people from 150 years ago and have no way to tie their actions to any current policy. Then you conclude by making numerous statements without fact. A democratic operative who has spent more time in the White House the Biden started the war against Ann Romney and women in the home.

Your hatred and emotion guide your discussion not facts and logic.

Do you hold any absolute beliefs or are your beliefs filled with errors? If they are absolute, we are no different. If they are filled with errors then you believe a lie. I will not discuss my religion with a close minded individual filled with hate.

@J.B. Schmidt -- War on Anne Romney and women in the home? Are you joking?

Mitt Romney started that one up by using his wife as support in the belief that American women don't care about economic issues like equal pay and the ability to control fertility, because Anne thinks everything is hunky-dory. Well, it is for her.

Mitt Romney makes $57,000 a day. Anne can be certain that any childen she might bear would be well taken care of. She also has never worked outside the home for pay, much less been in the position of being a breadwinner for a family, so she really never had to face he workplace/economic issues many American women have to deal with.

And finally, if anyone has made it more difficult for a woman (or a man) to choose the very important and honorable job of full-time parenting, it has been Romney's side of the economic spectrum, with their downward pressure on wages and a workplace ethic that penalizes individuals who aren't willing to spend every waking moment on the job in order to advance in a career. A ten year gap in a resume to care for young children is seen as a horrible handicap.

And didn't Mitt just say something about giving very poor mothers the 'dignity of work' in order to receive benefits, even when the resulting childcare costs will cost the taxpayers more money than letting them stay home? Is motherhood only dignified when you're Mrs. Romney?

$$, I understood that the badge union members who should up did so when they were off duty (I would hope so).

It's important to remember the status of most workers before the formation of unions. As the strength of unions ebb, so too do benefits in the private sector. Many private sector jobs offered pensions--now we are expected to invest in the stock market for retirement. It behooves Big Business for ordinary people to turn away from unions.

Add Right to Fire legislation and you have workers who are making less--more for the bottom line. Back in pre-Civil War days, when the debate about slavery raged, the argument of the South was that the North also had slavery, what they termed "wage slaves." Men, women, and children who worked horrific hours in factories for poor wages, so poor they could barely feed themselves. No money for vacations, medicines, education. If they were injured on the job they could be fired. Unions changed that for almost every worker.

Public union salaries and benefits were parallel with much of the private sector at one time. Now their benefits seem generous--not because they are being pampered, but because the benefits of private sector workers have eroded so deeply. One must ask, who benefits from that?

@JH
"stats and number" You mean facts. Those funny things that seem to trip up you liberals. I asked for some simple information to back up your claims. As you appear not to have any, it is you "talking circles".

J.B., in fairness, few of your posts or blogs contain stats and numbers.

@JH
I am going to ask for facts (or as you call them stats and numbers) to back up your sex education claim. What information in sex ed class will be not be allowed because of the legislation in Senate Bill 237? What restrictions did Republicans place on sex ed that did not exist?

@JH
Did you read the bill?

You did not answer my question. What restrictions on sex ed did the Republican put in place that did not exist prior? Or better yet, how will sex ed suffer now that bill 237 will be implemented?

This bill did 2 things. 1) Gave school districts the ability to have greater control of the sex ed curriculum. 2) Placed the emphasis on abstinence. Place find for me where it does what you claim.

I read the bill and noted some of the changes. Did you read the bill????

I find the "conservative" fixation with high school sex ed curriculum and female reproduction curious and inappropriate. It is the job of legislators to represent the people of their districts and to act in the best interests of all constituents. This smacks more of prurience.

@Bren
The fixation this election cycle started with a liberal commentator at ABC on January 7th in New Hampshire, followed by a liberal activist speaking before a panel of democrats in the senate. The state legislature returned power to the school districts and the parents and now the liberals are screaming.

Who is fixated?

A study has shown that while the U.S. is currently enjoying a steady decline in the number of teen pregnancies, states with sex ed and health classes that stress “abstinence-only” education rank the highest in the numbers of underage pregnancies, according to a post at Think Progress.

The current rate of teen pregnancies, about 35 per 1,000 girls between the ages of 15 and 19, is the lowest on record since the CDC began to track these statistics in 1940. The CDC attributes the improvement to pregnancy prevention efforts and education.

However, 37 states currently mandate that all sex education include information on abstinence, 26 of whom insist that abstinence be taught as the main method of pregnancy prevention. Studies have indicated that abstinence-only programs may end up deterring contraceptive use among teens who do have sex, whereas teenagers who have been taught a comprehensive sex ed curriculum are “60 percent less likely” to become pregnant or get someone else pregnant.

@JH
Nothing you have copy/paste has anything to do with not allowing a school district from teaching everything they want about contraceptives.

Tell me where the ss118.019 mandates that contraceptives cannot/should not be taught. As I stated before, it gave the power to the school districts and parents within those school districts that ability to design a sex ed ciruculumn.

Understand the Bill!

J.B., J H and the DPI made the point quite eloquently. This was ill-considered and regressive legislation. If the recall is successful I would hope that this "titillation legislation" would be first to be repealed/rolled back.

@ Bren
Please point out what is regressive about this bill?

I said nothing about a war on women that is your statement. I just think the bill was a waste of time. If you believe nothing was really changed then what is the point of the bill? And to use one school as an example is the usual rhetoric and thast we hear over and over. I just thought the big push in the legislature was supposed to be about creating jobs!

Do you think there is a War on Women--What is that?

Just like the voter ID bill--waste of tax payer dollars--thought you wanted less government?

@Stormy Weather -- JH didn't mention a 'war on women', but what else would you call the repeal of the state Equal Pay Act? It makes it much more difficult and expensive for a woman to obtain redress if she discovers she's being paid less than her male counterparts.

Randy:

How is it now 'more difficult and expensive' for a women to address an issue of being underpaid? It was my impression that the repeal just changed the amount of punitive damages that could be awarded...

One should also note that the law also applies to both men and women.

Did the police and firefighters at the protest skip out on their jobs to attend the protest like many teachers did?

Which is it Jason--do teachers earn an "ample" salary, or are they woefully underpaid as you seem to claim in your other comments?

Why is it so unreasonable to expect teachers to pay a few percent of their health benefit costs and a few percent toward their pension? What they are now paying is still far less than what the average private sector employee has to pay.

Well said!

@Jason
There are many business people who also work at home. Teachers are not exclusive in that fact.

This has nothing to do with not feeling teachers deserve to be paid. It is about not having money to pay them. More importantly it is about paying them a salary above what a private sector teacher makes and then asking them to kick in to their benefits at a rate lower then what a private sector teacher must pay in.

If you were at all honest, you would be fighting for the private sector teacher. You would be claiming that taxes should be raised to bring private sector teachers up to the salary of public school teachers. That public school teachers should be sacrificing (as you are demanding tax payers do) in order to pay for the benefits of private school teachers.

Most people don't teacher, because they don't want to. Just like most teachers wish not to collect garbage because they don't want to. Not everyone is designed to be a teacher, I applaud them; however, we don't have the money to pay them.

If you have never been a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, then you also should not be able to claim they deserve to be taxed higher. Since you claim to be an expert on who should be taxed.

That's why I'm out of patience with whining about high corporate and individual tax rates. It's getting sucked upward and isn't trickling back down in either the form of better jobs or the general good of society.

Merit passed society is the only way to go. You want more do more. That concept has made us the largest economy in the world. Now you got so many gaming the system to get the least out of life. Spread the wealth is a far worse idea than earning your way based on your own choices. If you think starting and running a business is so easy you do it. Its hard work and alot of risk. But that is never a concern of the entitlement society who feel they have a right to something without the effort it takes . Sad to see people crying about not doing better for themselves. Amazingly thats the one thing most immigrants that come here understand and appreciate. If you want it .......get it . But dont forget it's your responsibility to figure out how . NOT THE GOVERNMENTS!

OPPS ....Merit based society is the only way to go ...etc...etc..etc

@skinnyDUDE...I agree that we should have a merit based society. Absolute opportunity for all including a 100% inheritance tax; no more silver spoon generations, no one gets an advantage because of birth and birth placement. Let's see who really rises to the top.

@Randy

<<<That's why I'm out of patience with whining about high corporate and individual tax rates. It's getting sucked upward and isn't trickling back down in either the form of better jobs or the general good of society.>>>

Sure it is. Do you think I cut my own grass, do my own taxes, fix my own car or paint my own house? If I buy something made by an American Auto Union (which I ALWAYS do), do you think I buy the cheapest car they make?

The fact is that when GM almost went bust, it wasn't the unions that were living on borrowed money before, during or after the crises. It was the company itself what was living on borrowed money. The parasite feasted until the host was on its deathbed. Now the parasite and host have new life, because the taxpayers gave up some of their life, never to see it all returned again.

Ah, yes, Luke -- just what every young American boy wants to grow up to do -- cut grass for ten bucks an hour and no benefits. The jobs created by trickle-down are in the service sector, which is traditionally low paid.

@Randy,

Way to avoid the point. Do boys in your neighborhood do taxes? The two drywallers from Feather Drywall who worked on my house last week used $30 in materials and worked a total of 7 hours each and charged me $1,300 were the lowest bid. Is that what boys in your neighborhood get paid? I could have done it myself.

@Randy

<<< The jobs created by trickle-down are in the service sector, which is traditionally low paid.>>>

Who do the poor employ?

I don't know what the boys in my neighborhood get paid to cut grass. But I do know the hourly wage an internet acquaintance of mine pays the actual workers in his lawn-care business -- less then ten dollars per hour and no benefits. How much do you think the Molly Maids earn? Or the mechanic who changes your oil? By the time it gets down to the person who actually performs the work, the trickle is pretty thin.

@Randy

<<<But I do know the hourly wage an internet acquaintance of mine pays the actual workers in his lawn-care business -- less then ten dollars per hour and no benefits. How much do you think the Molly Maids earn? Or the mechanic who changes your oil? By the time it gets down to the person who actually performs the work, the trickle is pretty thin.>>>

So if Molly Maids doubles her pay and gives her all sorts of perks, and charges 3 time as much, do you think Molly Maids will get enough business to employ her and her fellow workers? I won't hire them (not that I do already). Same goes for my grass.

I take my car to Paul's Auto in Sussex because he is fair and affordable. My mechanic lives very well.

@Luke -- Whom do the poor employ? No one. However, if they were better paid they would function better as consumers of housing, automobiles, appliances, entertainment -- all those things capitalists like to sell.

@Randy

Perhaps you would like a law that requires people to hire people a minimum number of hours per week at their homes and to pay time at a rate of $50 to cover high wages and overhead?

No, I'd just like people who are squeezing whatever profit they can out of a system to quit deluding themselves into thinking they're being Lord and Lady Bountiful for paying someone to do the scutwork for them.

@Randy

But you just made my point. The VAST majority of people who you are jealous of work far more hours than what you said was reasonable. In addition, you said that you saw no evidence of the money of the wealthy making it down to the lower classes, when in fact you admit that you do see it all the time.

In addition, you admit that the people who work for low wages would not have a job if they were paid more. I speculate that you even will vote for the party that wants to dilute the work force even more by making illegals legal.

Basically, it comes down to supply and demand. I don't have the supply of time to do many things myself, so I have others do those things. If I had more money, I would have others do even more for me, so that I could live your 40-hour work week. In addition I would buy the more expensive things that employ the skilled manual labor. Poor people don't buy any of those things, because when they buy, they buy inexpensive and used items. And the fact is than no economy could support them living the lifestyle you demand unless they worked many more hours than 40 at the wages they are already working, just as I did a good portion of my early adult life while going to school and working 60 hours, with only Thursdays and a few hours on Saturday afteroon to see my wife and kids.

@Union's

<<< My department was one of the first to VOLUNTARILY agree to wages concessions and paying into our pensions and inceasing our insurace to 12.9% when we were already at 9%. I will lose about $5,000 in pay this year plus another grand or so for scripts and doc visits for the family. So don't tell me about gutting police and firemen. We are contributing! Now who will scott walker and republicons blame????>>>

Who could blame you, since, as you point out, you did your part. And Walker would not want to blame you , since you participated and his plan has worked. I know what it is like to bare the burden, since we in the private sector usually pay 20% of our healthcare and 95 - 100% of our retirement. Not to mention that it isn't pension, but actually simply retirement, funded on the stockmarket or some other security.

I, for one, have always argued that police are not paid nearly well enough. Thank you for your work. Thank you for participating!

@Unions

I'm trying to make sense of your comments. You do realize that Act 10 did not affect fire fighters or police, right. Actions were not taken at the state level. Your union does not negotiate with the state.

As things appear to be headed, I seriously doubt that Falk has much of a chance. Given that, do you understand that Barrett's consistent complaint about Walker is that he did not include police and fire fighters in Act 10???

Think about that whie you read the article below.

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/11/two-faced-barrett-or-evil-twin-milwaukees-mayor-on-ohio-wis-act-10/

ew, protestors. How nasty. They use salad forks when they eat Ian's Pizza. They should just go to hell.

@Lyle
I am not advocating it, I am questioning why Jason, in his defense of teachers, has not discussed the poor pay of private school teachers. It seems that should be where the battle is since they get paid even less then public school teachers.

I am against the current form of public education. It has failed more then it has succeeded.

Anyone have the numbers on the compensation differential between teachers in the private schools and the public schools?

What's your point Jay? That we should underpay everyone except for the American aristocracy?

Yes, because privatization and trickle down have worked so well for us. Let rich dudes keep that extra million and they'll hire someone to mow the lawn!

@Randy
How much profit should be allowed to be kept? Where would you cap earning potential? How must the rest be used?

Unlike you Keith, I do not know if k-12 public school teachers are being compensated correctly. I'd like to see some comprehensive statistical analysis of teachers compensation in the public v private sector as well as the size and depth of the applicant pools.
Based solely on my personal observations, I'd say that teachers at the High School level in both the Sciences and Math are under-compensated(we need to attract better people). For the k - 4th grade range, based on the size of the pool of qualified applicants, it appears that the compensation level is higher than required.
Frankly Keith, I don't know what to make of any analysis that 'attempts' a comparison of teachers to Firefighters or Rubbish collectors. Using the term 'fair', for compensation justification, by comparing very dis-similar jobs just begs credulity.

Well Jay, I don't know, but certainly teachers should be compared against people with college degrees and where applicable, advanced degrees.

For the most crucial positions -- math and science -- there are people in those fields who could make a lot more in private industry.

Of course we would not compare teachers to firefighters, etc, but I will beg credulity. Certainly I have no problem, for example, with fire fighters retiring early because I don't want sue 62 year old having to pull people out of burning buildings.

Speaking of which, how about that Corey Booker. No doubt if Scott Walker was faced with that same situation he'd probably wet his pants.

@J.B. Schmidt -- In 1980 the ratio of average CEO pay to workers was 42/1. In 2011 it was 343/1. Meanwhile, workers are being told to make sacrifices, take less, tighten their belts. Am I better off now than I was in 1981? No, not even close.

Is the bulb lighting up for you, JB?

@Randy
You failed to answer my question.

Why do I care what a CEO makes? There are many lives that were better in 2008 then in 1980. In 2008 the progressive housing system bubble broke and destroyed what capitalism had accomplished. Now instead of taking an approach where we learn from our mistakes, liberals realize they can focus their jealousy toward CEO's.

@J.B. Schmidt -- You probably don't care what a CEO makes unless you're one of the people working for that corporation whose wages have declined or remained stagnant to fuel that CEO compensation and the record high profits for the stockholders. Or if you're one of the workers who lost their jobs to pay for the above.

By all means, blame the housing bubble on people who didn't, in your opinion, deserve to own their own homes. Predatory lending practices, financial shenanigans (mortgage bundling and selling as investments), and artificial demand inflating the price of houses had nothing at all to do with it. Nor did people losing their jobs and being unable to pay their mortgages.

@Randy
Sure, and government housing policy developed by Carter had nothing to do with it. Policy during the Clinton administration pressuring banks to give loans to those that could not afford had nothing to do with it. That quasi-governmental Frannie/Freddie had nothing to do with it.

I worked for two corporations that had a very well paid CEOs while I made little pay. I never once was jealous about what they made. I was driven to make what they made.

What should a CEO be paid? How much profit is to much?

@J.B. -- There's 'jealously' and there's seeing the policy of asking workers to make sacrifices in the cause of austerity while CEO compensation balloons and corporation rake in profits for what it is. My father didn't raise any fools.

I get so tired of that childish question about how much should CEOs should get paid. The first answer is we know obscenity when we see it.

The second answer is we have a very good indication of money being held back from the system when a country like ours is unable to both grow and provide for its basic needs.

Let me turn it back on you JB. When the hell is the point when these people feel they have enough money. Even Mitt with his lifestyle is showing that he doesn't need a lot to live off, aside from his massive houses and garage elevators.

That said, it reaches the point of pure egotism. What society should have to cater to that. Yes cater. Because we provide and pay for the structure for them to attain these massive piles of money, plus have the leverage to ensure that they can make more of it.

People should not get rich by making others poor.

Never herd of someone working at a corporation, moving up the ladder and making less pay. Where does this happen Randy? Maybe that person should invest in said corporation, make HUGE dividend profits and "only" pay 15% of that income to taxes.

@Randy
You can't just say 'profits' as if that is an absolute value. Please define what is a bad profit.

@Keith
Whose definition of enough? Yours? What makes your definition better then mine?

You also cannot use a word like enough as an absolute. That is subjective term. I realize that actually placing a dollar figure on 'enough' will make your argument look foolish and hence you dance around using words that you can place an arbitrary meaning on.

I think you hit tis one out of the park! Nicely done!

@Keith Schmitz
You are exactly right. We should be like Europe where everybody stuck in the middle class, they have lost religion (accept for the Muslims taking them over), they have no ability to defend themselves and have relied on us, the government is controlled by on overreaching bureaucracy regulating every aspect of existence, homogeneous and adverse to outsiders and accepting of every scientific presumption that exists including global warming which is slowly crippling economic growth.

Those countries have no problems at all. What were the US capitalists that engineered the most successful in history, thinking? Europe had it all figured out. Be dominated by a dictator in WWII and then give the governments complete control to screw it up from their.

I am glad you shared your valued perspective.

Only people screwing us over are pimps like you Keith who suckle up to the government trough for loans that you don't pay back..

Speaking of pimps, looks like we another of the legion of Koch paid posters parachuting into Patch from God knows where. Welcome to our little family George or who ever you are.

Keith, please come clean on the Village of Shorewood loan and the hundreds of 'co-op memberships' that you bilked hard working folks out of. Keith you are a fraud and the folks here need to know this.

I don't have to because it didn't.

J. B. - Where are your facts that social mobility increased under Reagan? A lot of other things increased under Reagan, including the National Debt, and there were tax increases.

That's one survey, cited by that 80s throwback John Stossel. Here's the facts -- if you care about those things http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh010809.shtml.

But that's cool Luke. If you are going on one survey then with the volumes of research you must be backing the notion of man-made climate change.

Luke - If you just read and quote ultra-conservative propaganda, your integrity will be questioned and your posts ignored by all but a few poor tea potties.

The author of the survey you quote is none other than Arthur C. Brooks, president of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. Brooks spoke at a "Leadership Dinner" at ALEC's 2011 Annual Meeting in New Orleans, LA, on August 2, 2011.

ALEC is not a lobby; it is not a front group. It is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators the changes to the law they desire that directly benefit their bottom line. Along with legislators, corporations have membership in ALEC. Corporations sit on all nine ALEC task forces and vote with legislators to approve “model” bills. They have their own corporate governing board which meets jointly with the legislative board. (ALEC says that corporations do not vote on the board.) They fund almost all of ALEC's operations.

Elected legislators who are active in ALEC, overwhelmingly right-wing politicians, then bring those proposals home and introduce them in statehouses across the land as their own brilliant ideas and important public policy innovations—without disclosing that corporations crafted and voted on the bills. ALEC boasts that it has over 1,000 of these bills introduced by legislative members every year.

How can a thinking person take the survey you quote, or you, seriously?

@Dirk

Invest in a new (free) browser. Also, spend some time at this site, because it appears that you would benefit from it.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

@Luke - Suggest you read and practice proper debate techniques as laid out on the site you cite. You might start with not quoting obviously biased sources as authorities, such as Arthur Brooks, the ALEC speaker.

@Dirk

I suggest you read what is said, instead of practicing your usual fallacious method of trying to poison the well. After all, I posted a link to a liberal source at the NY Times who provided all the documentation. Of course your attempt to muddy the waters is par for the course, but our eyes are pretty sharp, nonetheless. Why shouldn't we believe a liberal who provided all the documention you demanded?

You're apparently self-relegated to the role of a barking dog, wouldn't you say?

Luke - Ron Pollina makes a lot of his money on getting businesses to move to other states. He publishes "10 best" and "10 worst" state lists to get the excitement up. Kind of like the old "blockbusting" when entire blocks of residential blocks were stampeded to the suburbs almost overnight through racial fear-mongering by unscrupulous real estate agents back in the the 1950s-1970s.
Let us all know when he gets a panicky company to relocate to Wisconsin, or gets one to move out of Wisconsin (much more likely).

@Dirk

Remember that link to the site I gave you concering fallacious arguments? It is a fallacy to attack the messenger rather than the message.

You have relegated yourself to the roll of a barking dog. I don't know how to communicate with you.

Well, let me try this......::woof woof:

Did that get through?

@Luke - .Calling me a barking dog? Then going "woof woof"?

Ad hominem attacks are in that list of debate rules you referred the reader to. This reinforces my point that ultra-conservative commenters resort to name-calling and vile references at the first opposition, sometimes before they even meet any opposing views. It is an apparent inability to comprehend why people disagree with their embedded beliefs, and the pent-up reaction is verbal violence.

Luke, Luke, Luke - The state budget office is not the equivalent of the General Accounting Office in Washington. It is not independent, it does budget work, among other things, for Walker's pleasure. And the Wall Street Journal is a Rupert Murdock publication for Wall Streeters or wannabees, and will publish such propaganda. Can you present the numbers that prove this claim?

@Dirk

Dirk, Dirk, Dirk...you are attacking the messenger, rather than the message once again? Do you refute the numbers, or just object.

Translation into Dirkanese: "woof, woof wooooooooooooooooooooof!"

Walker didn't go far enough. He should have included police and firefighters in Act 10. Then, perhaps, their unions would have supported him.

http://maciverinstitute.com/2011/11/two-faced-barrett-or-evil-twin-milwaukees-mayor-on-ohio-wis-act-10/

Tom Barrett also commented on Three Losers and a Runner.

Walker did not go far enough. Damn those unions.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/walker-challenger-tom-barrett-sought-to-weaken-uni